Speaker 2 (00:00.222)
right away you are questioned about what you want to be when you grow up. And I think that is a terrible way to frame life. I think the question should be is what is the problem you are trying to solve? Do you like to entertain people? Do you like to connect people? Do you like to fix things? Like what is the problem you're trying to solve? then back into the

I would agree that, you know, at 18 years old, being told to make a decision of what life you want to live is probably, you know, a bridge too far.

Welcome to Married to the Startup. I'm Alicia McKenzie, a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator. Alongside me is my amazing husband, George, the CEO who's always ready for a new challenge. We've been navigating marriage and running startups for over a decade, and we're here to share the real, unfiltered journey with you. Join us for insights and candid conversations about integrating love, family, and entrepreneurship. This is Married to the Startup, where every day is a new adventure.

Welcome to episode number 28 of Married to the Startup. I keep losing track of these episodes because we record them. We record these and then in my mind I'm like, I'm going to edit this myself because I can do anything. And then I never edit it because I have a lot going on.

counting is hard.

Speaker 1 (01:24.526)
So then we end up with episode 29 again

Is it 29 or 28? I don't know. You just said the wrong number. This is episode 28. should know by now I'm your host, Alicia McKenzie.

28

Speaker 1 (01:38.382)
and I am the other one.

He's the person that just shows up and talks. How's it going, babe? living your best life?

I am, very little prep work.

It's going. I'm trying. I'm living a life.

I'm like a solid like eight out of 10. Yeah. We, and by I say we, Ava and I, my oldest, and I just got back from the Bahamas. And can I just say that it's very, very hard to travel as two semi-attractive females by yourself. It's a little uneasy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53.474)
You're attending my book bag.

Speaker 1 (02:11.34)
Yeah? Well, I wouldn't know anything about that.

And we were originally going to go to Costa Rica because Ava wanted to play with sloths. So I was like, okay, let's go to Costa Rica. And I didn't talk to George. I just kind of booked all of our trips or like I just booked the flights and I booked the hotels and I rented the car. And then I started doing a little bit more research on where we were flying into. And apparently it's a really bad idea to drive at night by yourself as two solo females travelers.

Yeah. And then I told George, I was like, babe, we're going to Costa Rica. He's like, what?

followed shortly by, no you're not. Yeah, it's a sad reality, it's one that you can't ignore. have to be observant of the world you actually live in, not the one you wished you lived in.

It's really frustrating though, because I want to be like this super independent, I can do anything, nothing's going to happen to me type person. But then I feel like those people are always the ones that end up disappearing in the woods.

Speaker 1 (03:13.772)
Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I'm not thinking you live your life in fear, but you need to make educated decisions and not put yourself in positions, precarious positions, just because you feel like you're invincible. Without, and just turn to blind eye or ignore the reality of the world as it is. It's the same reason you don't let your kids play by the interstate, right? Odds are they probably won't get hit, but if they do, shame on you.

Yeah, and our flight landed, I think it landed at like 8 p.m. So that means I would have had to go like rent the car and then like try to figure out where we were going in the middle of the night. And I'm not the best night driver. I'm supposed to wear glasses. I just don't.

Yeah, and then all those excursions and trying to book those. mean, I'm a fan of you guys doing excursions or of doing excursions when we're on vacation, but they need to be booked through the hotel concierge and at a reputable hotel. So normally Four Seasons or The Reds or something where a lot of these people are vetted. So you're not just going on some random ATV tour with people who are uninsured and do God knows what.

So here's the thing, we have an 18 year old and typically when you're in 20s, right, that is the decade of exploration, right? You're gonna go out and you're gonna backpack and you're gonna meet people. How do we encourage her to do things like that and be safe? Because at some point she is going to go travel without us and I want her to be aware but I don't want her to be terrified and completely anxious when...

she's traveling because this is going to happen. Like she's going to leave the nest, our little baby bird, and she's going to fly and she's probably going to crash into some shit because she's a baby bird. But we want her to have those experiences, but do them in a smart way. And I'm not going to pay for her to go to the Rosewood and book an ATV tour.

Speaker 1 (05:10.42)
No, but I think you should do a, I mean I'm all for crashing, but crashing and skinning your knee versus crashing and dying. I think that this, and you know, I think this vacation was probably a good one and taught her the lesson of you have to, there's certain things you need to do before you go on this dream exploration. First, check the Department of State website, see how the country is rated. Do a little research on, you know, what are the top crimes in that area, especially for single women.

And then just being cognizant of when you're traveling alone as a woman or as a group of women that are, you know, three or less, it, the risk of something bad happening are, you know, goes up and being aware of that doesn't mean you're scared. And, but it's recognizing and acknowledging the risk and then doing things to mitigate that risk.

One thing that I did notice while we were, so we changed our plans. Instead of going to Costa Rica, and I ended up in the Bahamas for four days. And it was great, right? Because we went to the resort, we did all of our excursions through them. We still did things, like we did ATV tours and we explored the Bahamas Island and we had a great time. There was a casino, she's 18, so we were able to gamble. She figured out how to play blackjack.

figured out that people are gonna sit down at a table that you don't know and you're gonna have conversations with them and they're probably gonna flirt and they're gonna make eyes and then they're gonna realize that, she's married with five kids, I can't do anything. And we had all these great experiences. I don't know where I was going with that. Yeah. I totally lost my train of thought. there were situations where we're walking through the casino and I am like completely lost. And it's not that I was drunk, I just realized that my sense of direction

inside a building that big is so terrible. And she's the one navigating us through, like we had to get to the tennis courts and I couldn't figure out how to do that. And she's like, okay, just follow me. So she actually took the lead in some of these situations and I was like, look at her go. I was really proud.

Speaker 1 (07:11.342)
That's great. mean, casinos are designed to be confusing on purpose, right? So I don't want you to leave. And then back to her exploring this phase, I think that's what college is about. And you get to do a lot of things in college. And hopefully, she'll go on trips with her volleyball team, or she'll go on excursions through that college experience. In my mind, that college degree is less about

the money and the education that you're getting, but more about the education and life that you're getting.

Yeah, there is a study abroad program that they have through the university. So she said she wanted to do that. I think that's a great chance for her to go out and go live in a different country for a month and see if you like it.

under the confines and rules and risk mitigation procedures of the university.

Yeah, but it is, it's really difficult traveling as a woman who is attractive and not to be like, what was me? And I don't think I'm like a 10 out of 10. I'm like a solid seven most days, but there were situations where I was genuinely uncomfortable because of the amount of attention we were getting. It's just like, it's the comments and it's the this and like we couldn't, Department of State put out a notice that you shouldn't rent jet skis from a certain location because women were being driven to private islands and then

Speaker 2 (08:29.122)
being sexually assaulted, right? So there are all these risks that you have to be aware of, and it's a little unnerving.

It is. It's the world we live in. you'd like to think it's going to get better. Maybe one day it will. But I think if you look back through the history of civilization, of humanity, it's been the same. So I wouldn't. I mean, you can't focus on it too much. But you just need to make educated decisions. And is that jet ski ride worth the risk of sexual assault? No, it's definitely not. Exactly. I mean, and I think too often people

don't acknowledge the risk and the reward is nowhere near worth the risk.

Yeah, but there were several occasions where Ava and I were like, I wish daddy were here. One of those was we were like walking through the casino and it's all carpeted and we had to pull our big ass suitcase.

Yes, the pack mule.

Speaker 2 (09:23.244)
I miss my husband. right, moving on. You know, that's not even what we came here to talk about.

We came here.

That's not even why we're doing this. Okay. So let's do a segue into, this is another interesting one, surrounding 18 year olds and college students and their ability to interview for an internship. So I will say that I sit in the same office as my husband and I overhear some of his interviews and some of his conversations inadvertently. Like if something piques my interest and I'm like,

what the hell is going on over there or if something piques my interest and like, this sounds interesting. I'll kind of turn an ear and listen. But he was interviewing a college junior for a cybersecurity internship. And I think you do what? Six week internships?

That's what we were looking at.

Speaker 2 (10:17.952)
The answer to why do you want to be an intern at this company? The response was because I like the internet. Yeah. And she then went on to say that she's not, she hasn't taken any cybersecurity courses, so she's not really sure what that entails. Her coursework, her course curriculum hasn't touched on any of those topics yet. She couldn't tell you what the company did. And right there, I'm like, what the hell?

Are these colleges teaching our children?

Obviously not interview techniques, but maybe they save that for your senior year. by then, by then, yeah, by then you've already hopefully interned somewhere. So, and then, you know, just trying to give guidance to these people as I'm interviewing them or talking through how to do an interview for them. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to, trying to help her along because, you know, ultimately she's going to be interviewing for job one day and getting her or him, whoever, you know, you happen to interview this, this particular case happened to be a woman, but.

You were feeding her information.

Speaker 1 (11:18.092)
you for me, I'm trying to provide a little bit of mentorship and guidance to these folks as, you know, do a little research on the topic area. like she was interviewing him, she said she wanted to do an internship in the cybersecurity arena. So it was like, what part of cybersecurity interests you and not being able to understand any of the disciplines within cyber. It's like saying I like IT. What does that mean? Are you, do you like, you know,

servers and doing sys administration. Do you like network administration, cybersecurity, are you a web developer? Like all of that could be considered IT. It's like, I like to build how I'm a construction person. All right. What is that? Oh, I, uh, I'm a framer or I'm a roofer. I'm a plumber. I'm like, no, I'm just a construction person. Just, just, I like construction. like seeing houses. So I think, you know, I was trying to guide her in that, that, you know, when you're interviewing for folks, you should have an idea of the discipline in which you're trying to.

And I think it's a good advice for anything and it works for sales. works for everything. Do a little research on who you're talking to. Understand the company in which you're trying to interview for. And then if you know if there's any information available about the internship, I would have that readily available. Or conversely, understand in general is what you want out of the internship and be able to present that.

Every time you're talking to someone or meeting someone for the first time during the interview phase or during a sales process, they're trying to understand who you are just as much as they're trying to understand what it is you're trying to get. So be prepared. And I think she was not very prepared and she did not really know much about cybersecurity, didn't really know much about what an internship would be about. There was zero prep work.

I she just went in blind. really do. It was zero prep work. honestly like my gut tells me that somebody lined up this interview for her and was like, all right, show up at this time, do this, and this is what you're interviewing for. And then she just went in and like completely went blind.

Speaker 1 (13:19.714)
Yeah, and I wonder if that's a more pervasive thing for colleges and universities that you're picking a major without even actually knowing what that major entails, what the career outcome of that major is, right? So I want to be in cybersecurity. Okay, what kind of jobs are there with that degree? And then what are the entry level jobs with that degree? What does the salary look like? Yeah. Is there a particular swim lane within that degree?

Do think that's an issue though, starting from high school, right? Because right away, you are questioned about what you want to be when you grow up. And I think that is a terrible way to frame life. I think the question should be is what is the problem you are trying to solve? Do you like to entertain people? Do you like to connect people? Do you like to fix things? Like, what is the problem you're trying to solve? And then back into that because saying that you want to be a fireman.

Well, then there's only one route to go or saying that you want to be a doctor. There's only one route to go. But if you like helping people and you want to make people, you want to help them thrive, then you could go into nutrition or you could go into phlebotomy or you could go into like, there's so many different ways to help people in the medical field. But saying that you want to be a doctor is such a narrow minded approach to life. Is that the issue that we're running into with children these days is they all have to pick what they want to be when they grow up.

That's interesting one to unpack. know if it's... Yeah. No, I somewhat agree. think it's not, what do you want to be when you grow up? Because I think that's just a very overutilized turn of phrase. I would agree that, you know, at 18 years old, being told to make a decision of what life you want to live is probably, you know, a bridge too far. They'll say, okay, at 18 pick...

Yeah, but we all use it.

Speaker 1 (15:06.626)
Whether you're going to be a doctor, a lawyer, an IT person, an entrepreneur, pick it. And that's what you're going to be for the rest of your life. And there's a great speech that Jim Carrey gave at a graduation once when he talked about his dad and his dad picked this safe job in accounting and didn't go for his dreams and told him to, hey, you know, pick a safe job. And then eventually, you know, he got laid off from that safe job and realized that he spent all his life being safe when it didn't do anything for him. It didn't actually protect him.

Being safe.

Speaker 1 (15:36.526)
I'm not out here saying, chase your dreams, be whatever you want to be. But more so, what are you passionate about? What gets you out of bed in the morning? What do you think you want your life's purpose to be? And hopefully that's a broad definition, kind like, I want to help people. hey, helping people is my passion. That's what I want to do. Like, medical field is one way. You could help people by being a counselor. You could help people by being a lawyer. You could help people by building houses. You could help people by...

you know renting to low-income communities you can help people in a lot of way

Conversely, you could be not a people person, right? Maybe you're an introvert. like, maybe that looks like you going to work in a library or going into an IT field where you're just coding. Like maybe people, you just don't want to deal with people. So you know that X is out a lot of different fields, but that also opens up a ton of other fields.

Yeah, I think that trying to have conversations with younger kids about defining success and their passion or what they want their life to be in a very broad term. like for me, I enjoy building, right? And I enjoyed making things. So, you know, maybe someone with a narrow mind would say, you should be a carpenter, right?

Maybe you should. Did you miss your call?

Speaker 1 (16:54.59)
Maybe, but you know, I like building businesses. like renovation projects around the house. I like building a family. I like there's lots of things that you can do that are building. Yeah. And that definition is broad. you know, your career choice, your education can also be broad and, and windy a bit, but you can still achieve your goal. And you know, if you are doing that, then you can have a happy life. So that what do want to be when you grow up and pick accountant as a 19 year old. And that's part of, you know, maybe

picking something because you think you can make a lot of money at it, that won't lead to happiness. Just like everyone thinks being an entrepreneur makes you happy. You have to be happy being an entrepreneur before being an entrepreneur will make you happy.

No, definitely not.

Speaker 2 (17:41.998)
Absolutely. All right, well, mean, moving on. Let's say I want to be an astronaut and go into space.

Moving on.

Speaker 1 (17:50.702)
Get in line. Get in line. I hope you got money.

Okay, let's talk about it because I think you're going to have a lot of different opinions. I think if it were eight men going up, would you have the same feelings about the on 11 minute?

Well, why don't I use the, let's frame it up. So these, was it 11 women? These eight women, pioneers got into a Blue Origin rocket and went to the very outskirts of space.

Let's frame it up.

Speaker 2 (18:11.31)
I said eight. Was it eight?

Speaker 2 (18:24.47)
They went to space. You can say it, babe. They went to space.

They went to space.

It was seven women went to space.

okay and it was heralded as what

as a flight exploration trip or a space exploration. Yes, women empowerment. I think so. You have seven women going. They weren't rich,

Speaker 1 (18:40.28)
Space exploration trip. Yes. Of all ones.

Was it? Do you?

7 rich women bought a- weren't rich? Name one on that 7 that wasn't rich.

Three of them were, but I think the other three are actual astronauts.

I don't know. Well, I guess I would have to figure that part out because there was an actual female astronaut who was stuck on the space station for like six months doing real exploration and real scientific work. And I think she should be celebrated, not Katy Perry, for going up and kissing the ground when she came back after 11 minutes.

Speaker 2 (19:06.41)
I feel like

Speaker 2 (19:24.276)
I think you're reacting to news stories. Have you researched into why they went up there and what they did in those 11 minutes? I actually don't know. I'm asking you.

No, I-

Speaker 1 (19:32.14)
What did they do? Educate me. I've seen the videos. They didn't do a whole lot of anything but float around and look at the earth.

But here's the thing, we need to start exploring other options because we are terrorizing Earth.

Okay, I get that. Do you think that this is a pathway to that?

I think this. I actually, I actually do. I think the ability to leave the ground, fly up into space, float around for however long they did and then successfully land this little rocket and not blow up on reentry. Like I think that is pretty impressive, right? It's kind of like an airplane. Except they went to space. I know they weren't flying it.

They weren't learning it.

Speaker 2 (20:16.923)
You don't think they learned even just a little bit by doing this? Or do you think it was purely publicity?

I think it was purely a publicity stunt. For what though? Just like when William Shatner and all those guys went up. It's the same thing. I don't believe that. And I think it's, I mean, if you were to put me on a lie detector and tell me what I really think it is, I think it's one big commercial for Blue Origin that eventually this will be a commercialized flight to space that anybody can buy tickets if they have enough money. And how better to promote it than to continually send celebrities up there, have them come back. now you've

kind of created this marketing material to say, this is a safe flight. All these rich people have done it. You can do it too. Buy a ticket. Let's make some money.

You think this was a two, was it $2 billion or two million? You it was a $2 million content creation video?

Maybe. mean, just, yeah. These people trying to make it out to be like this women empowerment, I just don't buy it. Like if you want to use women empowerment, get real astronauts who are doing real things in space, not just rich women who can afford a ticket on Blue Origin. There's plenty of other female astronauts to look up to that are actually doing that kind of work.

Speaker 2 (21:34.638)
Well, mean, technically they made history because this Blue Origin mission marks the first all-female flight since 1963.

So they didn't make something new. happened in 1963.

Yeah, but it's been how many years? Okay. I think you're being overly critical. Would you feel the same way if it were a flight full of men? Yeah. What if your daughter was on the flight?

I'd be happy for her that she got to experience it, but I wouldn't think that it is something that we should teach young girls and say, see, look, if you were rich enough, you can do it too. That's all it says to me. It's the same with the man. Like, was it Nick Carter, whatever that, whoever went up there and William Shatner and does that say, look at you, young boy in kindergarten. You can be like William Shatner and go to space.

No, you can be like Neil Armstrong and go to space or you could be a famous actor make millions and millions of dollars and then get a ticket and go on Blue Earth.

Speaker 2 (22:31.586)
What was that submarine that tried to get to the Titanic? I mean, if it was that situation, would you be feeling the same way?

If they blew up? I don't know. Back to that risk conversation. The risk reward. Yeah, the reward was outweighed the risk here. They get to go to space and see the curvature of the earth and see that for all our differences and, you know, difference of country, difference of all these things, it's really just one interconnected landmass and people live on it. And just where you happen to reside on this, on this planet makes a gigantic difference into your belief system.

The way in which you view life, everything is so different just based on geography, not on anything else. There's no real walls that separate countries. trying to build a wall, as the earth was created, it's just one big land mass and people exist. And because we create these arbitrary boundaries of what's this, what's that, that man created that all of sudden we are enemies or we're different and we have different...

belief systems and forced into different economic systems, all because of, you know, just man's carving up of the land. Maybe a social clock. think my battery's dead on my social clock.

Maybe a social clock.

Speaker 2 (23:46.082)
Yeah, let's turn the page.

Speaker 2 (23:50.766)
So I was recently listening to a podcast and the theory of the social clock, or it's not even a theory, it's an actual, it's a turn of phrase, it's a researched subject, the social clock. And that is that feeling that you are always behind, right? You're not doing something that you're supposed to be doing by this certain time. So let's say you're 18, you're 18, you go to college. Four years later, you graduate and then you get a job.

And then you meet your spouse. And then by 35, you're supposed to have these kids in this house. And then by 40, you're supposed to accelerate your career. And then by 65, you're supposed to retire, right? These are all norms that we have been conditioned to believe that we're supposed to be doing. But what we're finding now is that the younger generations coming up are feeling like they're behind.

That is because let's say you're 24 and you're going into a new job and it's only online, not online. It's only a virtual gig, right? You're able to work from home. Now you have to navigate how to work this job while networking to accelerate your career, while trying to meet somebody and fall in love and do all of these things that haven't been done before because we're basing our life

on a clock that was designed in the 30s. What are your thoughts? Interesting. Do you think you need to retire by 65? Right? Like that's what we're, isn't that the age of retirement? Do you feel like you're behind on something?

think. Yeah, all the time. What? Everything.

Speaker 2 (25:30.764)
Why? Name one thing. What is one thing you feel like you could be doing more of or better at?

No, no, I always think I could be a better parent. I always think I could be a better husband. I always think I could be a better earner, provider. Those are things I always think I can do better at.

Is there a chapter in your book where you felt like you were behind your peers?

Not really. No, I mean, I guess...

You and I did things kind of backwards.

Speaker 1 (25:57.966)
And I'm slightly, yeah, I don't think I looked to my age group as peers and said, that's who I'm espousing to be. Yeah. Like, no. Why is that? I don't know. I just never really did. I kind of just had a, I had a goal, had a vision for my life, even as a young kid and said that it was broad, but I knew what I wanted. And that's where I drove my life. know, was, think I'm achievement oriented, goal oriented. And that's kind of.

pushed me down that path, but not everybody is that way.

Do you think social media is playing into that feeling, that anxiety that you're always behind somebody else?

Yeah, I mean, I get it sometimes even, you know, actually, and I feel like I'm, yeah, I've been fairly successful in the ventures that I've done, but you look at like, let's say LinkedIn, for example, and all you, for me, I see, this guy, you know, so-and-so is posting about this and he's really, you know, creating this persona around his business. And then,

And you're not even on social media.

Speaker 1 (27:04.386)
look at all the awards they're winning. look at all this. And then I'm like, I need to post more. I need to do this. I need to do that. And you feel it. And then, you know, luckily I have people to talk to, but I take a break and then I'm like, you know what, whatever they're posting has no impact on me or my business really. So why do I care? It doesn't do anything for me. It doesn't make my life worse. Doesn't make my life better. It's just noise. And a lot of these people, dedicate so much time to it.

Yeah. Do you ever see an &A event and you're like, God, they just sold another one. you, do you get that like? Of course.

I get a more of they they sold for X and I'm like fuck we were worth way more than now That's what I say most of

Right? is that a, does that give you some sort of business anxiety or is it just like a moment that you sit with and then you're like, all right, moving on.

Mostly a moment that I sit with now, but I think that previously probably, yeah. And I think a lot of people have that anxiety. just, most of time I'm an anxious person to begin with. So when I'm sitting around, I always feel like there's a hundred things I should be doing. You know, you get overwhelmed by there's so many things I should be doing that you just don't do anything.

Speaker 2 (27:58.2)
Previously.

Speaker 2 (28:14.08)
Yeah. So I'll give you one because recently Poppy, which is the probiotic, like healthy soda, they sold for nearly $2 billion. So they were acquired by PepsiCo, I want to say in March, for nearly $2 billion. And this company, started, God, what, 15 years ago? It's a long run, but there were people...

Yeah, it's a long road.

Speaker 2 (28:39.704)
that I work with and do business with and they're like sharing this story and they're sending this to me and they're like talking like, look at what Poppy just did. And all of a sudden I'm like, holy shit, like this is, I felt like that little bit of anxiety to go even further into our new little baby startup. it just, it made me feel some sort of way and I don't know why.

Yeah, comparing yourself to others is...

It's difficult. It's very hard. don't like it. And I always feel like I'm above that because I'm not a comp- like I don't like to compare myself to people but that made me do it.

Yeah, and everybody's

Speaker 1 (29:14.584)
Yeah, it's hard. mean, you when you see other people being extremely successful, maybe in an area in which you want to, you start to say, question yourself as to why you're not, or what are you not doing enough of that. But at the end of the day, if was, you know, if effort equaled perfection, or effort equaled outcome, then everyone would have the outcome they wanted. But that's not true. Like, so you need effort, you need ability, you need a lot of luck.

and then eventually you can get the outcome you want.

Okay, so back to just that feeling that you're behind on something. We have an 18 year old daughter. Correct. She is getting ready to go off to college. Correct. She will spend four to six years in college.

let's hope not sex, Jesus.

Fortify, She's already talking about her masters. Right. Because she wants to do, she wants to major in one thing and then get her masters in another. So she wants to major in communications and get a masters in psychology.

Speaker 1 (30:02.466)
Why?

Speaker 1 (30:10.264)
Yeah, interesting. Well, I guess that's something we can talk about at some point, that it's kind of the that virtues, it's not virtue signaling, but the luxury virtues. And it's really around that higher education. And a lot of people pursue this higher education, or they pursue degrees and continually get degrees or advanced degrees because they're trying to

for two signaling.

Speaker 1 (30:36.746)
have enough diplomas on the back behind their zoom screen to prove that they're good and they're important and they're enough. majority of, I'm speaking broad brush because obviously there's people that go to school to be doctors and end up incredibly wealthy. But if you look at the top five richest people in the world, how many of them went and got master's degrees? Not that many. No. No. When you think about Zuckerberg? No. Yeah. Steve Jobs? No.

Thanks, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:05.964)
Yeah, a lot of these guys never even graduated college.

was gonna say, who's the founder of Snapchat? He didn't graduate college. He dropped out of Stanford. Jack Dorsey, didn't graduate college.

Some say a lot of did.

Yeah, there's tons of them. But there's examples of people that said that. But I think that pursuing these master's degree and to Ava, we're talking about Ava here, it's why is she saying I want a master's degree? Is it because, hey, I want to help people and I think psychology is something I'm passionate about how people think and I think I can help people perceive the world better and help them interact with the world and have a better life? Maybe. And then does that require an advanced degree?

No.

Speaker 2 (31:43.022)
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. It's either a double major or a master's degree. But the subject that she really showed interest in, and I can't remember who we were talking to, but we were talking about her major. And then this woman was like, well, what about sports psychology? And like that completely piqued her interest. She's like, maybe that's it, right? Like she wants, she's very curious about how ADHD and how depression and how all of these different diagnoses

plays into the mindset of an athlete. And I think like that's the direction she's going in. She loves sports. She'd be a great coach. And I think just having that knowledge base for her is something that is important, but how that pans out in the future, who knows? So she's gonna go to college for four to six years and then she's gonna get a job. And then she's hopefully gonna meet somebody. She's already talking about a husband. Like she feels like she's behind because she doesn't have a boyfriend right now and all of her friends do.

I'm like, you have so much time, but how do you get that across to her without feeling preachy? Right? Because it's this invisible social clock that, she's supposed to have a boyfriend right now because she's a senior and everybody has boyfriends and they're all going on spring break together. And nope, she's in the Bahamas with her mom, which she probably had way more fun with me than she would have with some two month old boyfriend. Yeah. Right? I...

I can't.

Speaker 2 (33:10.666)
I understand the social clock and I could see how it's pressuring these young girls.

Yeah, mean, it's got to raise them to be independent. Like following, there's no playbook for life. And I think that's the thing that maybe this generation or generations after me have gotten more into. that social clock and the playbook for life was never something I thought about. And I think that that's what we got to instill in these later generations, the social clock or your playbook for life or career progression or life progression. None of that's linear. And none of it is time boxed.

Your life is your life and you only get one of them. And don't live your life according to someone else's plan. And you could not have a boyfriend until you're 25 and meet the right person right out the gate. Or you could meet 10 of the wrong people or 15 of the wrong people right out the gate. Who knows? You never know, right? And whether you start that at 16 or you start that at 26, who gives a shit? And if it's something that you feel like you want to do.

then go do it. But if you feel like you're doing it because you're staring at the clock, then it's kind of like going to sleep, right? When you go to sleep and you're having insomnia and you keep looking at the clock, it gets later and later and you get more pressure and more anxiety about going to sleep and then you never end up sleeping. You sometimes just got to unplug the clock and look away. And I think the social clock is kind of similar. Don't compare yourself to others. Live the life you want and be confident in who you are as a person and the fact that you're living the life you want. And if you're not living the life you want,

Yeah, change it.

Speaker 2 (34:46.913)
but also as a woman you have to be cognizant. Like, yeah, there's no social clock, but hey, there's definitely a biological lock. That is true. So if there is an even like an inkling that you want to have children or you want to be a mother, how does that look in your future? And if let's say you're 34 and you still haven't met somebody, go freeze your fucking eggs. Yeah. Freeze your eggs and stop thinking about it because maybe in three years you're going to meet the man of your dreams and you're going to want to have his babies. And ooh, let's have some babies.

Yeah, we've had a bunch. But we had a friend recently that, you know, remember when they got together, she was older and had, you know, she was not going to have any kids. And they got married. He had a kid and then already, and, you know, they together for years. then lo and behold, all of a sudden pregnant. you're like, that's, you know, I'm sure it wasn't on their bingo card, but you're like, Hey, it's, they're rolling with it. It's kind of life is life and it's going to happen. It's unexpected. It's unpredictable.

So that's not on anybody's social clock, right? That wasn't on her social clock. And it just works. And I think that sure, it's fine to give it a name and normalize it, but you don't want to normalize it to the point where it becomes a thing everyone, you know, lives their life on this social clock. Yeah. I think women probably think about it more than men. The thing I would imagine men think about on a social clock is less about having kids and getting married and more about career. Like,

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:16.398)
I'm in the prime and I've heard one of my friends say that recently. He's like, hey, I'm in the prime of my earning potential. Right? Yeah. I mean, according to statistics, sure. But that doesn't mean, you know, some people, you know, run companies in their early thirties and make, you know, hundreds of millions in their thirties. Some do it in their twenties. Some do it in their fifties. I mean, the average, yeah. And we've talked about, you know, crystallized intelligence versus, you know, other types of intelligence, the two types. then, you know, which ones, you know, most CEOs and where you, you achieve the most are sure.

But it's just a recipe for anxiety and self doubt that if you say, I've got to make the most money I can possibly make between 40 and 50. though? Because that's the peak career for a working person. Yeah. Based on statistical data from, I don't know, from recent, right?

based on what?

From the 40s? don't know. There's more than one way to live a life. I'm just, my fear is that we're drilling these imaginary deadlines into everybody for no reason. And it's doing nothing but causing anxiety.

Yeah, but why do we do that? And there was a podcast I listened to recently and it was interesting. Like the child was getting in trouble in school because he was not completing his work on time. you know, kind of what the therapist was saying is, I understand schools want to do this, but it's bad for kids and it's bad for parents because you think something's wrong with your kid. sometimes it takes people longer to do things. you know, I've been...

Speaker 1 (37:48.43)
I agree with what he said because I've worked for what since I was 16 years old. So 32 years I've been working on and off in the last couple, but say 32 years I've been working. It's very, very rare that someone says, oh, you have 20 minutes to get this done. Yeah. Get it done in 20 minutes or get it done in 30 minutes, turn it in tomorrow. Like it's very rare that you have such a short window of time to get something done. Yet school is nothing more than creating those time, time block boundaries around.

You have an hour to do this test. You have 50 minutes to do this. You have 20 minutes to read this. You have 10 minutes to do this assignment. And if you don't do it in those 10 minutes, and you should be able to do it because everybody else can do it versus, you know, maybe you're a free thinker. Maybe you're, you know, it takes you longer to articulate your thoughts or it takes you longer to do the math than somebody else. Like, is that going to impact your life and should we punish you and time box you and kind of pigeonhole you at a certain age because of some norm that someone created some point in time?

Yeah, definitely.

that in all realities of life, it won't fucking matter a bit.

That's like an issue that we're toying with personally because we do have one son that is just, he's very much on his own timeline and we don't want to pigeonhole him but also there are certain things that can't fly in the classroom. it's definitely a thin line of wanting him to conform enough to get by but not so much that we squash his creativity and everything that makes him him.

Speaker 1 (39:17.804)
It's like confidence.

That's for another episode because I feel like I could just go on and on and on about him.

Yeah, and I think we will, but it's the same. I think it's that same concept. Just we've been kind of as a society conditioned to these things like we're conditioned to what right is and wrong is, and we're conditioned to judge people and be judged by people and be fearful of being judged by people. All these things are not innate in us as humans. It's pushed into us and bred into us by our parents. And the social clock is probably the same way. Our parents and then outside influences have

push this social clock on us that says you have to be X by Y and you have to break it as a parent or break it as a friend that there's no such thing, right? You're gonna wake up one day and you'll die, right? And until the day you were born, until the day you die, you just gotta make the most of every day and try to live the life you want. Very interesting social clock. Our social clock is ticking.

I think our social clock is ticking. That's all she wrote folks. We'll be back next week.

Speaker 1 (40:22.894)
George, out.

Speaker 2 (40:27.33)
Thank you for tuning in to Mary to the Startup. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please take a moment to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast. Your support helps us reach more people and keeps the conversation going. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, drop me a message. I love hearing from you guys. Until next time.

George out.