Speaker 2 (00:00.276)
Everything in psychology is a spectrum, right? I'm sure if we were to look at all of the spectrums, you could pull a handful from this and a handful from that and a handful from this and like it would fit me perfectly. All so there's no one way to fit any person into a box, but there are ways to understand your thinking and your personality. Welcome to Married to the Startup. I'm Alicia McKenzie, a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator. Alongside me is my amazing husband, George.

the CEO who's always ready for a new challenge. We've been navigating marriage and running startups for over a decade, and we're here to share the real, unfiltered journey with you. Join us for insights and candid conversations about integrating love, family, and entrepreneurship. This is Married to the Startup, where every day is a new adventure.

All right, and we are back. Episode number 29 of Married to the Startup. I'm your host, Alicia McKenzie.

I am George. am curious George. Furious George. Probably does. It's not my turn. It's your turn. Nobody wants to know what's on my mind.

you are. Yeah. Are you though?

Speaker 2 (01:07.566)
I feel like that fits you better. What you got for us today, What's on your mind? Tell me what's on your mind. What grinds your gears? Should we start doing like bi-weekly episodes of what's grinding your gears?

Peter Griffin.

Speaker 1 (01:27.148)
Yes, let's do it. It's grinding my ears.

How's the stock market doing today?

It's doing okay today. Yeah, it's like every other day it's a yo-yo.

It is a yo-yo. It's like up and down and up and down.

Yeah, it's a roller coaster. The only people making money are the crooked politicians who are insider trading.

Speaker 2 (01:47.224)
Tell me how you really feel. All right, so we are coming off Easter weekend and this is something that I think as a business owner you have to consider. So Easter weekend, I think people got Good Friday off, right? Is that a thing? Is that the weekend? Is that the Friday before Easter?

think it just did.

Speaker 1 (02:11.084)
Yeah, I think some people get that off, not everybody.

Okay, and then now there's Easter Monday.

I don't think anybody gets that off.

But it was a holiday on the calendar. Why is it a holiday? I don't know.

I don't know, the federal government's open. So, if the federal government's open, not a holiday.

Speaker 2 (02:26.87)
Okay, makes sense. But separation of church, religion, and your company, how do you approach it? Because you are, what do you identify yourself as religiously?

I don't know, we've had this debate before. I don't really know. I believe in God, but that's about as far as it goes.

Okay, do you believe in organized religion?

believe it helps a lot of people. me, I don't believe in going to church. think religion is just about relationships. So as long as your relationship with God is the one that you want, then it's great.

personally for you.

Speaker 2 (03:03.246)
Because we've had this conversation with our children and none of them have been baptized. Right? Correct. I think Ava, I think she was. I actually think her dad did that without discussing it with me, which is a big no-no, but she's 18 now, so the point is moot. But I do believe she was baptized and she identifies herself as, did she say atheist? Yes, that's what she said. did. That was.

Washi.

Speaker 1 (03:28.065)
Atheist.

Speaker 1 (03:31.63)
Let's hear from

I honestly, I think she was just saying it to be, actually, I don't know. Maybe she is, who knows.

I'm not sure she understood the difference between diagnostic and atheist.

I consider myself to be agnostic, meaning that I do believe there is something bigger than us. I believe that all energy is connected. I believe there is a clear difference between right and wrong. And I believe that you should live your life considering others and not being an asshole. Yeah. That's it.

There you go, the three commandments of Elysia. Less than ten. Although, I mean, the ten commandments aren't too bad.

Speaker 2 (04:12.586)
No, mean thou shalt not kill. Yeah, I hate a thief. God, I hate a thief.

Thou shalt not steal. Cove at thy neighbor's wife. Thou shalt not cheat. What? Cove at the neighbor's wife? No.

What does that mean though? cheat. Like how so? Adultery. Oh, okay. I wasn't meant like cheat on your tests or cheat on your taxes. Is that out, shout, not why? Is that a commandment?

Adults

Speaker 1 (04:32.696)
That'd be lying.

Speaker 1 (04:37.422)
think I got the good four and then I'm petering out. I'm not sure I remember all 10. I was not a devout Catholic nor Baptist. My mom was, I was not.

I went to a private school all the way through right before I got to high school. And then I was like, I'm not doing this shit anymore. And I went to public school. But I went to a parochial middle school, elementary school when we got back in the States from Japan. And I wasn't a fan. I just wasn't a fan. I find it hard to believe that you can judge and treat people a certain way because they don't believe what you believe.

Yeah, you should know way more about this.

Speaker 2 (05:17.282)
That just seems so anti-religious.

Yeah, I mean it's the opposite of what the Bible teaches, right? Judge not, yet ye shall be judged. But it seems like a lot of judging.

Yeah, and then we've been to the Vatican. Yeah. We've been to Rome and you have so much wealth and yet there are people begging on your front steps.

Yeah, mean, most of the churches in Europe are like that.

Yeah, I have a really hard time with that. I choose. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:48.974)
Begging on every corner. So I mean, I understand the hypocrisy of it, that I get it. I think for me, my view is, like I said before, it's a relationship and as long as it's the one that you want. yeah, there's good and evil in the world. And I agree with those things. But my view is I believe that the vast majority of religions have been weaponized or utilized to control people. And it is a great

tool to control people, right? So you can elicit the behavior that you want by the fear of judgment, the fear of hell, the fear of not being accepted into the church. I mean, it's very similar to pick another controlling mechanism of people, different types of government, right? Like other types of government control people similar ways.

back.

Speaker 1 (06:43.564)
You have to think the same way as the rest of us. You have to believe in it. And if you don't believe in this country, this autocracy, this name it, then you'll be ostracized and or punished. And the fear of that is what drives you to continue to do it and then tell on other people who are not doing it.

Yeah. So, and what brought this about is because over the weekend, I obviously am subscribed to a bunch of different mailing lists, but there was a brand and marketing company that sent out an email on Easter Sunday. I'm pretty sure it was Easter Sunday. And it was a lot of religion, religion, religion.

sign up for my class, religion, religion, religion, schedule a call with me, religion, religion, religion. Like it was so salesy and it just felt very wrong to be sent on Easter weekend and I unsubscribed. So at what point, how do you separate running your business from religion?

I mean, unless your business, I guess that's a hard one. It's a loaded question. It sounds like the email you got was basically from a religious organization if it was all about religion.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:57.11)
No, it wasn't. She runs a brand marketing company.

I don't know. It's a personal preference. It's almost like, you know, trying to interject yourself in people's sexual preferences or whatever they like to do. I think you steer clear of it and the guidance that the, you know, I think the federal government's an easy one. Like the big holidays are all defined. You just follow those. You can acknowledge that they exist. But I think it's only self-serving if you utilize that.

day or that event for your own purposes.

Yeah, it felt really salesy and not, I don't know, just not kosher. It's not something that I subscribe to. So naturally I unsubscribe from the email list, but then it got me thinking and like, well, when do you draw the line on respecting the holiday, but then also running your business? Right? So we have a, and I'll just say for one of my companies, we have a posting cadence that we post Monday, Wednesday, Friday. If it falls on a holiday, we still post, but it's very much like,

for those who celebrate have Merry Christmas, right? So something like that. That seems right, but.

Speaker 1 (09:11.34)
Yeah, mean, think acknowledging the Christmas, Memorial Day, Fourth of July, things that are meaningful. you wouldn't send a Fourth of July posting if your client base was, you know, non-US, right? It would ring tinny. It just makes no sense, right? So I would say the same thing with my personal view. I've never posted once anything on any of my social media for any company I've ever run about Easter or about Halloween.

or there would be a New Year post maybe and there would be a Memorial Day post and a Fourth of July post. Those are probably it.

Really? Yeah. So you just ignore all religious holidays.

Yeah, there's no, I mean, I guess from my view of the world, it's very limited. Is that when I'm using social media, it is advertising, right? It's 100 % advertising. No how you cloak and dagger it, the only reason you're doing it is for advertising. There's no reason as a company you're doing it other than advertising. So if that's the thing, advertising that today is Easter, how does that help me? Advertising that today is Christmas, how does that help?

Bye.

Speaker 1 (10:21.44)
No, I'd be better served just getting my message across about my company, what my company does. And if I sent that message on Easter, well, I just happened to be home that day. I wouldn't, but I wouldn't leverage the day as some, I mean, what brand exposure are you getting by posting happy Easter everybody? I mean, it's kind of a throwaway and it's meaningless, so why do it? Inclusive of what? I know, but do you think, I guess about it.

You're inclusive.

religion.

Do you think someone will see your post that says Happy Easter and go, hmm, I'll remember that company because they're super inclusive because they said Happy Easter and they had a picture of an egg and maybe a bunny and it was so cool. Or, it was Christmas post and there was a Santa Claus on there drinking a Coke or like the Santa Claus drinking a Coke, fantastic advertising for Coca-Cola. It's not, mean, and they're using.

Christmas to advertise Coca-Cola. Like that I get. They're leveraging the holiday to brand market what they're selling. If you're not leveraging the holiday to brand market what you're selling, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (11:28.376)
Yeah, okay, I actually, like clear direction. So, New Year's, Memorial Day, Fourfeje.

Yeah, because I think like New Year's is a great opportunity. can blend in your company. Hey, it's a new start, new year. Yeah. Maybe a little bit about your company.

Is 4th of July going to feel a little political this year, or can we all agree that it's okay to celebrate the country even if it's not going the direction you want?

Yeah, I think so. Because the Fourth of July is not an indication of the, it's not a celebration of the country today. It's a celebration of the country's formation. Yeah. Right. And it's victory over England. yeah, I mean, that's what you're celebrating. You're not celebrating today. You know what mean. I'm not celebrating. It's not a vote of confidence for the direction of the country. It's a vote of celebration for the country itself.

But we can celebrate today the markets up.

Speaker 2 (12:25.582)
Interesting. Okay. Now, I was curious about your perspective because I know how I feel about it, but you have had to deal with or run a company full of 250 people with all different religions and all different beliefs. how do you approach that and not offend anybody who seems to be everybody is so easily offended these days?

Yeah, the last company was like 500 some people, but yeah, and you're looking at other countries and they have their own holidays. Easier to post things that know, non, they're not going to be taken misconstrued as you trying to culturally appropriate or leverage it for your own corporate advancement. know, just steer clear.

Okay noted. That's a good approach.

Or yeah, be, yeah, I don't know, be who you are. So if that's a very, very important holiday to you.

I need clear direction.

Speaker 1 (13:25.814)
I was saying if you're a devout Christian and your company's ethos reflects that, sure, post on Easter because that's who you are and that's who your company is. But if it isn't, why would you do it?

I also feel like you're going to find your people, right? If the people that you want to support it and like the message and whatever, whatever, those are your people. And if they don't, then they unsubscribe. Hence what I did. Clearly not her target audience. All right, moving on. Last week, we talked about openness. And I don't know if we talked about it on the podcast or if this is just a conversation you and I had. No?

Clearly not.

Speaker 1 (14:01.006)
I don't think we talked about it the plot.

No. Okay. So I listened to a podcast about a, I want to say she's a psychologist. I'm like 90 % certain she's a psychologist, but she went over just discussing the big five personality traits. And one of those personality traits is openness, right? And there are several tests out there that you can take that will assess how open-minded you are as a person, whether you're imaginative, creative, insightful.

so on and so forth. And you and I got discussing because...

You didn't describe it that way earlier. That's funny because like I interpret openness as something else.

Well, no, in psychology, this is what it means. Low in openness or being high in openness to experience.

Speaker 1 (14:44.481)
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:49.07)
to experience, that's different. Okay, I like that qualifier. That makes it make more sense.

Yeah. So people who are high in openness typically are intellectual, imaginative, creative, philosophical, elegant, complex, deep, introspective, artistic, inquisitive, original, whole bunch of traits. Low in openness are moralistic, conforming, unadventurous, can typically be seen as traditional.

a simple, conventional, old-fashioned, short-sighted, unimaginative,

If you're an external person and you hear these adjectives to describe it, I think that's a little bit of, I don't know, is that like clinically accepted definitions of those two or what she says?

I actually pulled these traits from a psychology book and a psychology podcast. So this is how they describe being low in openness to experience or high in openness to experience. So low in openness people are very predictable. They don't like change. They prefer routine. High in openness are open to try new things, unconventional, curious. And I don't think...

Speaker 1 (16:03.892)
I think a lot of those adjectives though, it just, it seems like you shit all over one and you praise the other. That's what those adjectives sound

No, because here's the thing, people who are high in openness, they have begun to find correlations between high open people and schizophrenia. It's not saying that one is worse than the other.

I mean if you look listen to the words this one's very flowery and the other one is not very flowery

Do you think you're creative?

It depends on what it is. Like I'm creative on the things that interest me, right? Like I am a builder. That's what I like to do. So when I look at companies, I can create a new way forward. I can look at what they have and I can make a meal out of it. Yeah. Right. But when it comes to sitting down with a blank sheet of paper and draw something or write a song or play an instrument or write a book, no, that's not me. Yeah. I mean, it just, feels very like black and white. have to be one

Speaker 2 (17:02.434)
Like it's a spectrum everything in psychology is a spectrum right like the Autism spectrum disorder. It's an entire spectrum So you could I'm sure if we were to look at all of the spectrums You could pull a handful from this and a handful from that and a handful from this and like it would fit me perfectly alright so there's no one way to fit any person into a box, but there are ways to understand your thinking and your personality and then

Yeah, because that way you can't be wrong.

Speaker 2 (17:29.696)
if most of them happen to fall in the low and openness or, and the big five is, my gosh, ocean. So openness, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. So those are the big five personality traits within psychology. And I was, we were talking about the openness because usually people who are low in openness don't like to try new things or are very traditional.

Yeah, I think if you frame it as people who are high and people who are open to new experiences and people who are not open to new experiences. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. There's certain people that are open to try a lot of different things. There's other people who are unwilling to try things at first and would maybe go for it, but their option, their first inclination is, you know. No.

website.

Speaker 1 (18:24.302)
Yeah, no or you know comfort zone. You don't want to leave your comfort. Nobody likes change I like change for a period of time. Like I think I think humans it's been you know, humans do not like change We don't evolve that fast. We like routine we function better in routine and I'll even you who are openness when your routine gets thrown off you are Hard to deal with No, I'm hard to deal with all the time. So you only have it at once in a while. Yeah, but it's the routine I think that's the way most people are but

When it comes to first answer yes and then figure out if it's a no, that's the different approach, right? Like say you're a yes and then we'll get into the details and figure out if it's a no or I'm a no and then convince me why it needs to be a yes.

Let's see, that response is off-putting. So I find myself not talking to you about things, and I'll go talk to somebody else. Because I don't like, if there's something that I'm honestly curious about and think it's possible, and your first response is no, or if I think your first response is going to be no, I won't have that conversation with you. I will go find somebody who is higher in openness and have that conversation with them.

because you are wanting the feedback that you want the answer that you want?

Because no, because if the very first answer is no, that shuts the discussion off right then. That's how I view it.

Speaker 1 (19:45.858)
Yeah, not for me. Well, you and I are different. I know, I think people are allowed to have an initial reaction, right?

But your initial reaction is always no. Yeah. Which makes you great at business, but...

I think it's, you you have to be, you still have to have new experiences and be open to accept changes and be open to new ideas. Yeah. Right. But I like to be convinced it's the right idea, not just accept that it's the right idea until you're down the path and realize it's wrong.

Are we talking about life or business? Both. No, I think it's two different things. I think I approach business very differently.

Yeah, so I think my personality is my personality on both sides. I don't have to turn one on or one off. Maybe. Yeah, because like if our children come to us with an idea of something, right?

Speaker 2 (20:26.658)
Maybe I have multiple personalities.

Speaker 2 (20:34.666)
Like, let's give it an example because I feel like it's too, if it's too broad, could be, because I can go either way here. So give me an example of something that our kid came to us with and wanted, you wanted to say no right away or yes right away.

We'll go through an example we've done before well like the kids come up to us and say hey I want to run a lemonade stand What my initial now say that you say that now because you've gone through the right down the rabbit hole Yeah, my initial response is always no because I know that it's a lot of work and I know That they're not really gonna do it right and then I know it's gonna be two hours of Getting materials and getting things ready for them being out there for five minutes. Yeah, right, so

God.

Speaker 1 (21:15.406)
I'd rather say no and then them convince me why they want to do it. And then when they try to convince me why they want to do it, they have to formulate their opinion. They have to make a case. They have to understand. And then you can ask questions back and chip away at it to see if it's something they actually really want to do. Or it's just an idea that fluttered in their head for a moment and there's no point to entertain it. Right? So that's the way I look at it. And, you know, if you come to me saying, Hey, I want to start a clothing line.

Okay, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (21:45.654)
And I would say, well, you know, it seems hard. You know, how would we go about doing that? Right? Versus the reaction I think you want is, yeah, we should totally do that.

That's, I would never say that.

I'm not even just saying, I'm I would never say, yeah, I should totally, I'm just throwing a wild thing at the wall to show the difference. And then if it's something that you firmly believed in, you've probably done some research and you have some points of why you want to do it and why you think it's valid and we go back and forth. But just because my initial reaction isn't the flowery positive one doesn't mean I'm unwilling to talk about it.

Sometimes it does. Like I said, depending on the subject, if there is something that I don't feel like hearing no to, I won't talk to you. Right? Like, I parse out my subjects like that.

Yeah, OK.

Speaker 1 (22:37.078)
Right. So why would you be unwilling to hear a no if you're so positive about it?

I don't know because I don't. Let me think. I'm trying to come up with a case in which I did not talk to you first. I went somewhere else. This is hard. I can't think of one recently, but I know there are a handful of times when I haven't talked to you first. maybe. Okay, let's just say the US Open. Okay. Right. Lindsay and I decided that we were going to go to the US Open. So we are looking at dates and we're looking at tickets and da-da-da-da.

talked to her first, right? I didn't talk to you first, because I would have been like, I want to go to the US Open with Lindsay. And you would have been like, no. Yes, you would. Anyways, but low in openness, high in openness, and how it relates to business. I think you were an amazing leader, because you have to be very, very, very certain that that's the direction you want to take the company in, right? You're

the now.

Speaker 2 (23:38.08)
You're one person that I have met that is immune to shiny object syndrome, right? And I think that is a huge downfall of being an entrepreneur because there are a lot of people who get a random idea in their head, whether you're running a company or a small business or something. And they're like, Ooh, we should do this. And then that's the direction the company goes in. But then they see something else and they're like, but instead let's try this. I haven't seen you do that ever. But I think that's because you are lower.

an openness versus if you were higher in openness, you'd have been like, yeah, let's do it. Let's try it. Let's get down the path and realize that holy shit, this isn't working. We need to turn. We need to pivot. I hate that word.

There's nothing wrong with pivoting. you know, I'm a firm believer. I like to fail fast. Yeah. Right. If you're do it, do it, but fail fast. Yeah. I tend to create a strategy that is, you know, three to five years out and then you have milestones in which you grade yourself against. if you create a strategy and you take all the time, effort and, you know, market research to create a strategy and a vision for the company, and then you pivot that.

within a month or three months. I mean, you're going to do that for the rest of your corporate life until it spirals into nothing or you get lucky and it hits. Because you never really get time to understand if your strategy is paying off. A strategy can't be executed in a quarter. Right? So, and I think that's a lot of people is when you don't get traction right away, you grasp on to the next floating thing and hope that works versus the time, effort and energy. Because if you picked a good strategy out the gate,

and you have a good execution plan, you have to be able to have KPIs and lead indicators to understand that you're moving in the right direction or you're not. And if you got data points that come back that you're not moving in the right direction, the market moved away from you, pivoted it, went to a different technology or went to a different service, or it's just OBE what you were trying to do, then yeah, you got to pivot the company. But if your KPIs and the market's still there and

Speaker 1 (25:40.526)
your lead indicators suggest that, I'm still on the right path, I just need to tweak X, Y, or Z, then you readjust those things, not the entire vision of the company. And your vision should be broad enough that, you can move left and right within it, kind of like my view of life. Success is wide. It's a wide berth. So you can go a little left or a little right and still end up where you want to be.

So are you an extrovert or an introvert?

I think, what is it, extroverted and introverted? Like, I can be an extrovert when I need to, but my default setting is probably introverted.

Do you networking events and happy hours, do you feel mentally drained when you come home? Or are you ready to go? Like, do you feel energized after the event?

After the event? not energized. No. No.

Speaker 2 (26:28.846)
That's typical of an extrovert. They usually feed on

Yeah, no, not really. No, I mean, I think you can, yeah, you get up for things, right? Like when you give a presentation or you give a talk, like you get amped, I feel amazing afterwards. But when I have the same, you know, mundane conversations at a networking event of describing the elevator pitch of your company and hearing theirs and talking about random market bullshit for

how my-

Speaker 1 (27:00.184)
five minutes and then rotate to the next speed dating. That is just mind-numbing. But having genuine conversations with people, like, yeah, I get, you know, choosed on that. And when we go out and have drinks with our friends who are all highly successful people, I love the conversations. We talk about all kinds of things and it's great. And I feel excited and energized afterwards. But when it's this room full of people forced into a networking event, most of which are sales guys, all trying to...

sell themselves and their company. just trains on you.

Yeah, I went to this one event recently and it was a lunch event. It was very, very, very large. I want to say there was like 600 people. So when you go down the escalator, you walk into this sea of women and it is so loud and so overly stimulating that I walked down and I swear to God, I was like, what am I doing here? Like I wanted to just cut bait and run. Like it was terrible.

It felt so overwhelming for me and I normally don't get the sense of being like anxious or anything, but that room and the way they set up that space, like it just made me feel so anxious. Everything was very echoey. It was loud. It was like you're in this cattle like, like field thing. And there's just so many people and they're all like, it was terrible. It was really terrible. So I feel like if you are setting up these events, make it.

smaller. I'm more of like an intimate type connection person but something like that like I'm never going back to that event because it was just really really bad.

Speaker 1 (28:36.94)
Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, I mean, I typically think of you as an extrovert. I know. put you in a room you like talking to people.

Absolutely, and like that made me want to run.

Yeah, that's interesting. I think networking is something you need to do as a business. But my definition of networking is you build a network of people that can help you and you can help. Yes. Right? That's how you build your network. I think going to a networking event where everyone's going to a happy hour at a conference is probably not going to get you that. No. Right? But

So.

Speaker 1 (29:14.102)
you know, going to symposiums or maybe going to talks, like in hearing interesting people talk about subjects that you're interested in or things that are aligned to your business goals and objectives and you're learning something. The people around you are probably learning something too and are probably similar mindsets. And then those are probably better candidates to network with, i.e. build a network versus let's go to the Lions Den at happy hour and sit there with

Yeah, all the senior sales associates for all these different companies who are there to spend five grand on the conference. Yeah. And that sounds like the one you were at was more of, let's just put all these people in a room, put up some stand up tables and give out cocktails and let everybody mingle.

It was terrible. And it was during the day, right? I have a hard time. I don't like drinking at events, period, because I just don't like not being in control of my words. But it's the middle of the day and there's like champagne flowing and all this stuff. And I'm like, ugh, just get me out of here. This was such a bad idea. I could be golfing. I would much rather get eight people into golf carts or four golf carts and just go out that way. Like that's my kind of networking. Maybe I'm a man.

just all depends on what you're after. And age group, I think, plays a role in that. I think there's people in their mid-20s to mid-30s that probably think that's an amazing day. Did you say? I would say mid-20s to mid-30s. I think that is where salespeople go to these networking events. They drink, they hang out, they try to meet as many people as they can possibly meet, grow their LinkedIn.

I said mid-30s because I'm...

Speaker 1 (30:56.332)
that's actually enjoyable because it's a logical extension of the college life. Like, college I'm partying, doing things with the frat or the sorority or whomever. Going to the games, we're drinking, day drinking, doing all these things. Sunday, fun day, everyone going crazy. And then you get out of college, that continues for a little bit. And then you have a corporate world that kind of is the next evolution of that same kind of mindset, which is, hey, we're going to do

Let's say Accenture, we're going to do one or two happy hours forced get togethers a week and the junior associates love it because it's just like college. I get to go out on a Tuesday night or a Thursday night and the company's paying for it and I get to have drinks and I hang out with friends and I meet new people and I'm talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Right. And I build my brand because within these

consulting's, you know, it's an inward selling and an outward selling, right? You got to sell yourself inside to get put on projects and get with managing directors and senior directors so that you can get placed on projects. And then when you're on the project, it's the outward selling to the client of the company. So you're selling in both directions all the time and networking helps you do that.

Yeah. Okay, so can we switch? we talk about the gig economy really quickly?

Sure. I don't even know what that means. I've heard the term a billion times. I don't know what it means.

Speaker 2 (32:16.29)
The gig economy.

Yeah, so you're either working for a corporation, you have a nine to five, or you are a 1099 and your entire livelihood is based on the gigs you're able to work. Right? So whether you are, let's say you sell services and you sell services to this company and then you sell services to this company, it's gig work, right? There's nothing long-term, there's nothing secure, but you are in complete control of your work schedule.

You're in control of when you want to be open. You're in control of the direction of your 1099. Right? That is the gig economy versus... like, so think Ubers. That's a part of the gig economy. Or the bartenders we bring in for parties that we host. That's a part of the gig economy. The musicians we hire or the magicians that we bring in for the parties.

Those are all people that fall within this gig economy. Right? Do you think the gig economy is playing into the unhappiness of people in general? Yeah. Meaning that you don't have stability. You're not going into an office. You're not networking or interacting with people on a regular basis. You're basically in charge of your life and you control when you talk to people and you control when you work and...

I got it.

Speaker 2 (33:43.158)
If you don't work, you don't get a paycheck. If you have a baby, you're forced six weeks off or however long it takes you to get back in there. Do you think more people would be happy if they just want to go apply for a job and work for somebody for 40 hours a week?

I think it cuts both ways. I think the gig economy works when the economy is rolling. When there's lots of jobs to be had, you can be the master of your domain. You can demand the lifestyle that you want. And I imagine when all things are rocking on full cylinders, you're pretty happy. Because you're talking to people on the gig you're on, you're meeting new people, you're getting that emotional need.

met by talking with folks, you have a sense of belonging on every contract that you're on and your financial needs are being met. the hierarchy of needs, your social emotional wellness is being met because you're talking with people, hopefully you have people on your inside circle, but then you also are having all your financial needs met which will reduce your stress. And then when the economy is not bursting,

and there's a job around every corner. Now, right, I can imagine the unhappiness sets in because you're the stress of not having your financial needs met, right, starts to go up. And then that cascades itself across everything. So if you don't have a base of financial needs and financial wellbeing, then everything else starts to collapse above it. So having those social, emotional contacts and the ones that are, you know, kind of deal friends, not real friends, the ones that you only meet on a gig.

Right? Or to help line up the next gig are not people you can talk about about the financial stresses of things that are going wrong in your life. Maybe if you're in that gig economy and it's that trade off, right? You want freedom and freedom comes at a price and that price is risk. and instability. So would you be happier? It depends. Would you be happier if you got a real job and you had to go to the office every day and work for some company? God, no. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (35:37.742)
Thanks

Speaker 2 (35:49.058)
miserable right you see me trying to work for somebody no I could be like the worst fucking employee ever that's babe you'd be a great employee why because it's nice you're supposed to be nice to me no you're not

I would agree.

Speaker 1 (36:06.26)
I'm always nice. my god. I am incredibly nice all the time.

Whatever. Anyways, I feel like I would have a very hard time going to work for somebody else. But our financial picture is different than a good portion of America. I think right now, if it were us 15 years ago, I might consider it, right? 15 years ago, we ran a gym. I was in my athlete career, but things were frothy.

If we were in that same position right now, I would probably cut bait and go work for a, I don't know, like an ethos gym or something. Or I think that's the gym in South Carolina. What's one up here? I don't know. Write like a core power. I'd go teach soul psychology or some bullshit because you need that stability.

But even though, do you think that's? I think those are gig workers too. they? I think so. I think they're mostly contractors. It's kind of like our teachers when we had the job. They didn't actually work.

I

Speaker 2 (37:00.076)
I feel like they're employees.

Speaker 2 (37:06.078)
No, they didn't. Okay, so then I'd pick like an easy big box gym and go be an employee somewhere. Because at least you know that you have that stability until the market goes into a complete recession and then everybody's fucking fired. Right? Because nobody's working out. You're all working out from home because you can't afford $500 a month gym membership. Maybe.

Maybe. But yeah, I think it goes to what, if you're an entrepreneur and that's who you are and you do not, your happiness is tied to your ability to manage yourself, then yeah, the gig economy works for you and you're gonna make it work for you. And you'll be happy. But if you're doing the gig economy because, it's fast and loose and easy money and I could do it from the beach and then when it's not fast and loose and the money's not easy, then yeah, you're probably.

really unhappy about it.

So maybe it's time to reevaluate your gigs and go work in an office for a little bit.

Yeah, or just, you know, reevaluate your life. What do you want to do?

Speaker 2 (38:01.71)
I still will never, ever forget that one guy that we both know. He works, or he used to, right? Like he worked six months of the year and then he took six months off. No, but I just think that is an awesome way to do your twenties. Right? If you were young and stupid and had zero attachment, like go work your ass off, go grind for nine months and then go take six months off.

Yeah, he doesn't do that.

Speaker 1 (38:24.322)
Yeah, but again, that's another one where when the economy is fantastic or you have a skill set that's really unique, it works. Yeah. But right when someone's looking at your resume, be like, hey, you hop jobs every year. Why? Can you explain that? And you go, 100%. I do it all the time. Yeah, I choose not to interview people who have had a job. If you've had two jobs in the last three years, then I'm probably not going to interview you.

now that

Do you?

Speaker 2 (38:50.136)
That's interesting because from what I've seen, it's going a different direction. I think companies are more lenient when it comes to resume gaps. Are you not seeing them?

I don't personally personally I don't no personally and then even all the people that are on my part of my interview teams have the same on same mindset when I may have missed it they're like hey they've had five jobs in the last seven years and you're like I did I guess I didn't timeline that out because you know for for this the company I run and the companies that I've always run you know having low attrition is something I strive for so I want retention

So I want employees that are loyal and passionate and want to be a part of something. And people that fall into that mold normally are a part of something else and leave to be a part of what I have. And if you're constantly leaving, then you're not loyal and you don't want to be a part of something. You can't have chosen poorly five times in a row out of seven years, right? Or three times in a row. I get it if you had one bad choice in there, like this just did not work out. It was not a good fit.

But if you have three, this was not a fit, this was not a good fit, this is not a good fit. I wonder if it's those companies or is it you? So that's how I look at it. And it's just, it's a lot of time, energy and effort to hire somebody.

Yeah, definitely. Especially in your field though, Cybersecurity is difficult field.

Speaker 1 (40:13.236)
Right. then, so you put all that time, effort, energy to hire somebody. And especially, let's say it's a government job and you got to get a clearance and all these other things. It's a lot of effort and expense and lost revenue if that person bails. why, if that person, I mean, history is not a hundred percent indicator of future success, but it is a good data point to have. Okay. Yeah. So if you were advising, if I was advising my kids, I'd be like, Hey, you can just, yeah.

in six months.

Speaker 2 (40:36.503)
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (40:42.326)
Need to not job hop.

Hmm. Yeah, I remember job hopping, but it was always for within the same company It was with them but the companies are for were massive, right?

Yeah, if you're changing roles, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (40:53.55)
Yeah, but if you go company to company to company, then either you're chasing a paycheck or you're a bad penny. So if either one of those are true, I hire you, then odds are in three months, you're going to want more money. And I'm probably not set up to do that. So why waste either of our times? I do the same thing on interviews too. That's a pet peeve of mine, getting on an interview and you can tell right away.

That could have been what it was too.

Speaker 1 (41:21.292)
Like, is this person a good fit or not? Or if they're bombing the first three or four questions and the interview is just not going well, just cut it. Don't go the whole hour. Because you're going to waste their time and yours. Because it's not fun to be on the interview when you know it's not going well.

Okay, so how do you politely cut an interview or do you just throw the polite out of it?

No, I just stop the questions, right? And then I'll be like, hey, I don't think we have anything else on our end. Do you have any questions for us? And then you'll go to that and then they'll ask them. Normally they probably don't have one or they do. It's the same couple. What are your benefits like? what do you... And then they're like, you explained that to them. And they're like, all right, well, if you don't have anything else, I appreciate your time. I will give you 15 minutes back in your day and we'll be in touch.

and you'll hear something from HR, it's been great talking to you and then move it on, move it on. Yeah, why waste time? Interesting. You're not doing them any favors by having them on for the 15 minutes. You know you're not hiring them. They probably know you're not getting hired, so why?

So you're passive aggressive. You're passive aggressive.

Speaker 2 (42:28.974)
Alright, last question. Virtual background, yes or no? Yes. Really? You're okay with virtual backgrounds?

I use one now. think I use a backdrop of the company. That's what I put behind me. It's like a PowerPoint slide backdrop. don't like the fake office. Yeah. I want, know, if just advertise your company, that's what you're going to do. Yeah. Put your logo behind you and have the company.

Use a virtual background? okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (42:54.414)
So if you're meeting, if you have an interview and they have a virtual background.

I don't care about that. No. As long as it's not distracting. As long as they're not in the virtual avatar on the interview. I did have a partner that used to be, used to have his avatar for every meeting and that was so annoying. But yeah, that was very annoying.

naming names.

Okay, I think that's all we have for today. We'll be back next week.

Peace.

Speaker 2 (43:23.362)
Thank you for tuning into Mary to the startup. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please take a moment to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast. Your support helps us reach more people and keeps the conversation going. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, drop me a message. I love hearing from you guys until next time. George out.