Amri Kibbler (00:00.108)

I always just tell people now how important it is to know what your normal feels like, like know what your body feels like when it feels good, and then be aware when there's any little variance or any difference from that, because colon cancer does not have a lot of symptoms. It can go completely symptomless. So the symptoms are actually can be quite subtle.

Welcome to Married to the Startup. I'm Alicia MacKenzie, a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator. Alongside me is my amazing husband, George, the CEO who's always ready for a new challenge. We've been navigating marriage and running startups for over a decade, and we're here to share the real, unfiltered journey with you. Join us for insights and candid conversations about integrating love, family, and entrepreneurship. This is Married to the Startup, where every day is a new adventure.

All right. And welcome back to episode number 38 of Married to the Startup. I am your host, Alessi McKenzie. I'm your host, And today I'm actually really excited because we have Amory Kibler on. And if you don't know who this is, then you probably should. How long have I known you, Amory? What, since 20...

Cozy Co.

Amri Kibbler (01:13.87)

17 or 18? god!

like that for it's it's been a life.

A ago, yes, a lifetime ago.

I count my lifetime in kids and it was three kids.

Wow.

Amri Kibbler (01:27.534)

Wow, that is three lifetimes ago.

Right. So I'm not going to do you any justice by trying to explain all the amazing things you've done in your career. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll get into it.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So, you know, back to how we know each other. I started a little company called Hey Mama all the way back in 2014, which is a million years ago. Incredible community, social and professional network for moms and business all around the country. Thousands and thousands of members recently was acquired by Luminary earlier this year. No small feat. Actually, we were acquired twice. So we were acquired

at beginning of last year by a private equity firm, and then we were acquired again, yes, you can do that, by Luminary this year. So that's my little wrap up of Hey Mama, and then I'm the host of two podcasts. One is Leaning Into Being, and then my new podcast is The Space Between Navigating Cancer and Family Life. So I'm a community builder, community architect, entrepreneur.

Before that, like six lifetimes ago, I was an editor at Hurston Condé Nast, so deep in the media space.

George McKenzie (02:39.352)

We've done, done a lot. So I think, the one thing, the first topic I think we want to talk about was, you know, kind of related to our podcast is the power couples, you and your husband and how you were able to maintain space for one another and cohabitate in growing a startup through two acquisitions within two years. And then also the, the cancer diagnoses and I think, brain aneurysm was also in there and a, and a business breakup. sounds like, you know, a life's a true life story for like,

30 years of marriage, but it was in a very, very short window. So love to hear more.

The past five years have definitely been a whirlwind. And so my husband is also an entrepreneur. He's a fashion photographer, but he also has another business where it's called Salt Studios. So there are studios for movies and TV rentals in Williamsburg and a couple of other ventures too. So he juggles like four things at all times as well. You know, because why not? And I think that that's why nothing ever phases him. And we've gone through so much together that we're like,

Why not?

Amri Kibbler (03:42.182)

okay. Well, we know that we have each other and there's always that like sense of stability there that has helped us to get through all of those things. So I'll just rewind back to 2020, the beginning of the pandemic, my company, Hey Mama was completely like exploding. We had just raised $2 million. Like it was just the momentum was incredible pandemic hit, which actually wound up being great for us because

moms were even more isolated, need more resources and connections. And we were able to really kind of scale and bring that to them digitally as we were also building a digital platform at the same time. for us, everything kind of, it was working out on the business side, but on the other side, I was starting to feel really terrible. And I was having all of these like digestive issues and symptoms and ultimately ended up being diagnosed with stage three colorectal cancer.

in December of 2020.

Because let's throw a cancer diagnosis on top of 12 months of a pandemic.

Right. And two kids at home that were trying to school at home and you know.

Alicia McKenzie (04:51.968)

All of those things.

gosh, let me go back, nine and four. Yeah, yeah. So it was all crazy. We could delve into like figuring that out with them too. So I did chemo and radiation. I took some time off to focus on my health and I came back into the business and so, know, everything was on fire. You know how it is. Like when one thing in the business starts to go crazy, my co-founder and I broke up, not to mention that she was my

gosh.

Amri Kibbler (05:23.16)

best friend and the mom of my daughter's best friend and our lives were so just intertwined. So we broke up and I found myself alone and operating at probably like 60 % capacity. My brain still felt like it was scrambled eggs from the cancer and the treatment and all the things. And all of a sudden I was solely responsible for the financial ramifications of the business.

all of the people, all of the things. I would say that was probably the most stressful time of my life, even more stressful than actually going through the treatment because I was supposed to be de-stressing. Everyone says, you can't start, get, de-stress, stay away from stress, relax. And I was working every minute. was getting up at five.

I was on the phone with lawyers at like 11 p.m. Every day was a new emergency fire. You know how it is, the entrepreneurial roller coaster where all of a sudden you're just going down to bottom and you're like, okay, when are we going to start going back up on the other side? And then it seemed like things were kind of evening out for me and I had a cancer recurrence in 2022. So my cancer came back like shocking.

So, okay, question. Because wellness is at the heart of everything I do, how did you feel? Did you feel bad? Like, did you feel like something was off prior to your diagnosis in 2020?

Yeah, so prior to my diagnosis, I started feeling really off around kind of around the same time that the pandemic started, but no one would take me seriously. I had just moved. I tried to get into so many doctors. They wouldn't take new patients because I had some sort of symptoms. Meanwhile, like the symptoms that I had were not COVID symptoms, but if you had anything, people were just so freaked out. You could not get into their office. So.

Amri Kibbler (07:21.632)

I couldn't see anyone. I tried doing telehealth appointments with my regular GP and I was going to one of those practices. It was like a designer practice in Manhattan where you could get in at any time that you wanted to, but they really were just like, you know, it was great to go in if you had a cold or something like that. So they would do telehealth appointments with me and they're like, well, you look really great. You you seem fine. It's stress, you know, finally I convinced them there was something wrong with me.

that I must have irritable bowel. So they sent me to a GI doctor who I went into his office in Manhattan and he again looked at me and was like, well, you look great. You seem great. Do you want to have a colonoscopy? And I was like, well, of course I don't want to have a colonoscopy. Do I need to have a colonoscopy? He was like, you know, I don't think so. I mean, you look really great. Never examined me, sent me on my way. Okay. And then I was really feeling terrible. I started having all of these

cognitive problems where I'd be in a meeting and I'd be like, what are we talking about? And I would hang up my computer, shut my computer and go and like, I'm just going to lay down for a minute. must just be exhausted from the stress and wake up two hours later, like meetings missed, like phone calls, you know? And so that was a huge red flag. And my husband, and it was actually his best friend that insisted, he's like, you need to find out what is wrong with you, whether it is just

stress or irritable bowel or what have you. And so I went to his doctor in Manhattan who didn't take insurance, of course, started all over, did every single test. And he was like, you know, I can't find anything wrong with you. You, I've done all the blood tests. You need to go and have a colonoscopy like right away. So I went and found a surgeon near me and was in his office a couple of days later.

explained all my symptoms again and I should have known that this was the huge red flag. He said, okay, so I can fit you in day after tomorrow. Okay. So you know, and it still didn't like ring a bell to me that I was like, great, you know, they must be so much less busy up here because I live in the lower Hudson Valley now. No, he was alarmed and wanting to get me in right away.

Alicia McKenzie (09:27.681)

God.

Alicia McKenzie (09:43.039)

that serious.

was that serious? Yeah. So I did have a lot of symptoms, but you know, it was just really difficult during the pandemic. think there are a lot of people that were misdiagnosed or couldn't get the treatment that they needed. So I always just tell people now how important it is to know what your normal feels like, like know what your body feels like when it feels good, and then be aware when there's any little variance or any difference from that. Because

So, cancer does not have a lot of symptoms. It can go completely symptomless. So, the symptoms are actually can be quite subtle. So, there's so many different things like that. So, you just need to be aware because you have, you know, 15, 20 minutes with your doctor and you have to be pretty sure there is something that's out of the ordinary here and I need you to figure out what it is. If it's something simple, like I need another supplement or I need a little something, but I want to know like, what is it? Why do I feel like this? Because this is not normal.

Yeah. my gosh. I mean, I'm glad you- Yeah, seriously.

colonoscopy.

Amri Kibbler (10:46.498)

Definitely get your colonoscopy because it's true. I know so many people that had zero symptoms.

Yeah. That's terrifying. I mean, you've got one July 8th.

That's my second one. I am on the three-year plan, not the five-year plan.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you beat colon cancer in 2021 and then you had a...

Then it came back 2022. So I had two surgeries then. And at this point, I thankfully had Erica Hanifin was a part of my world and we developed a deeper relationship working together and she became the CEO of Hey Mama. And I would have never been able to get through any of the, or any of the things that happened over the course of the last, you know, four years without her. So she was really.

Amri Kibbler (11:34.178)

there for the business, there for me as a friend as well. So I had two surgeries. So of course, then I was out for a couple of weeks with each surgery as well, but it was really challenging because I just, my stress cup was like half full all the time. So, you you can only, once you put a little bit more stress into it, it would just like overflow, you know, and my cortisol levels were through the roof.

I can't imagine. can't imagine. So this is Mary to the startup. Can we touch on the founder fallout?

We can touch on that. You know, I have not spoken about this to anyone.

Okay. Be as vague as you need to be, but what are the red flags? I know we have a lot of founders that listen to this podcast or are considering going into entrepreneurship in some form or fashion. We always preach the fewer the founders, the better. Yeah. But it was only two of you.

I would say no.

George McKenzie (12:29.838)

And I think we've. Several times. And I think you'd mentioned that the, the other co-founder was also your best friend, which, you know, having done a company, one of my companies was a lot of friends that started it. And my advice would be not to do that because I think you can be, you know, you're going to be in a work kind of marriage with these people for, for X amount of time. friendships are.

or something and, you know, business relationships or something else. And sometimes it's hard to have the two coincide. And I'd wonder like, obviously, you know, how, how that all fell out and then how did that impact your personal friendship as well as all the, business relationship that was there.

So I will say there is something amazing about working with your friend. Like it was part of the magic and synergy that we had in creating this brand, right? Like we really understood each other, but it's also, puts blinders up for you and you make excuses because you love that person. And so there were definitely red flags. You know, we had to bring in an executive coach to work with my co-founder in 2019 and

there were a lot of signs of things that were happening, but I think it was also, it's hard to go to not only the co-founder, but the best friend of the person that you have some issues with. So it all happened at once when I came back, I left the business for three, three and a half months. And so I was a bit of the buffer, right? In things. then when I was removed,

A lot of things happened and I got back and there was a lot of feedback and a lot of eye opening things that happened. So it was at that point that we decided it was best for her to leave the And you know, there's so many things like looking back on that. I was also exhausted and at that time was wondering like, should I continue on in this business?

Amri Kibbler (14:31.054)

I leave and focus on my health at that point. And now looking at it, I made that decision to stay and let her leave partially to protect her. And so then I ended up having to deal with all of this stuff because I had put her before me. And so it's also like so many lessons. So there is great things about working with a friend, but there's so many things that are challenging and complicated.

and things that you need to go into with your eyes open. like every cliche that you hear, we found to happen. Like all those things that they warn you that could happen to you, you know, as the board coming for you and those things we found to be happening for us. And you hear about them because they are real. You should be aware.

Yeah. Ultimately we're abortions. and I think, so how was your relationship with your husband during all this time? I know it's hard to do a startup and hard to run a business and then you compound that with the cancer diagnoses.

He's experienced something similar.

Alicia McKenzie (15:37.062)

And raising children. And a pandemic. And a brain aneurysm. Where does that fit into this first?

Yeah, so I had my second diagnosis. then just as I was getting into a place where I was feeling good, I mean, for a while, I couldn't leave my house after I had the second surgery. I couldn't go anywhere. I literally had to be like two minutes from the bathroom for like ages. So it was a year later, and I was like, OK, great. I'm finally feeling really good, and I'm traveling and all these things. And my husband's mom had passed away from a brain aneurysm. So he decided to go and have a brain scan.

and have that checked out. And it came back that he had a large irregularly shaped aneurysm and they wanted to do a craniotomy to fix it. And so that was last year, that was 2024. And his best friend had just passed away in a car accident, like two weeks before this, just completely, he was 39, like complete shock. And so he had the surgery and it went well.

rate. Thankfully, he went and had the scan. It didn't rupture, so they took it out. It was just a matter of having part of your skull removed and then sewed back up. He was a little off. One week later, he got a call that his dad had passed away. good Lord. His dad lives in Australia. His dad had also said,

proud.

Amri Kibbler (17:07.99)

Make sure that you wait for Jason to get here for the funeral. So two weeks after he had the surgery, he got on a plane and went to Australia for his dad's funeral.

Was that against doctor's orders? I feel like flying with a piece of your skull not fully set.

You would think, you would think, no, they said he went in and he was checked and they said, you're fine. Like you can fly. There's in no way will it impact the pressure. But I mean, I don't, I really don't know how he got that. He came home and he was so sick for like two weeks. He couldn't get out of bed. It was, it was crazy. So it has been a crazy few years, but I will say that it has brought us even closer and we rely on each other so much.

I talk to so many people that have had cancer and serious illnesses and it does one or the other. It can completely wreck your relationship or it just makes it, there's really nothing that could happen to the two of us at this point. They could drive us apart. He has done everything for me from like packing gauze until a four inch deep hole in my stomach because I can't stand the sight of blood. So he, did all of the things and like with tubes and like.

all of that for me to just being so there for each other. And it was interesting. I felt the weight of what it's like to be the person that's in the waiting room then on my side as well. And it is really, it's so, so hard. I don't know which is harder to be the person there that's like just terrified and trying to keep it all together and trying to manage the kids and their schedules and all of the things and communicating with the other people. And

Amri Kibbler (18:48.578)

I mean, I only had to deal with it for a month. He had to deal with it three times for months and months and, you know, continuing to run his businesses. He had to clear his schedule several times to be able to just be there for me. Never complain was always like, okay, this is what we got to do. I'm going to do it. I'm going to be there. And yeah, it just, we're definitely each other's rock.

It's just so fascinating that even through all of this, you built a company that was taken to acquisition twice. How? Like, just, I can't wrap my head around it. How do you manage all of that, but then still have that ambition to continue growing and evolving? Because it's not like, mama was an easy journey. You went from fully in-person

to having to pivot to going virtual and then the world reopens up and people are like, well, I don't want to be virtual anymore. I want to be in person. So, okay, now we're going to have to do hybrid events. I mean, and I was a part of Hey Mama through this whole time. So I see, I've seen from the inside the kind of company that you've grown and the community that you've fostered. How did you do it? Like what point are you just really good at compartmentalizing? Like you're just, I don't.

am really good, very good at compartmentalizing. I always say that I have like a chest in my head where I just dump things when I can't deal with them. And I'm like, okay, we're gonna shut that and put it over there for a while. And I can go from one zone over into the other zone. But I will say that when you're passionate about something, it can actually fuel you and help you to mend. It's great to have something that's distracting and from.

So many people who have been sort of cancer mentors to me talk about purpose and having a purpose as being something that helps you to heal and helps you to get through the day. And I've always been super passionate about supporting women and bringing them together and what we were doing with Hey Mama. And there was no way that I could leave that behind. And even though I wanted to be in a place where I'm focusing on my health and other things,

Amri Kibbler (21:01.098)

It needed to have exactly the right home, which is why we went through a second acquisition. And it now has a home with Luminary, Kate Luzio, who is a dear friend of mine, who is so passionate about women supporting women and being there and doing that. So many times we partnered on events and programming and other things. So I now know that it's in a space where our members are going to be able to get all that they were getting programming wise.

and out of their membership as well. it's all the things you also hear about being acquired by a private equity fund. We won't go into that too much, but I'm sure you know where I'm going.

Yes, definitely. we actually we had Erica on the podcast right after first acquisition, right? Yeah, I think so. She was newly pregnant. So I want to say she was like eight weeks, eight or 12 weeks pregnant. Now she has the baby.

And now she has her baby. Just a few weeks later. baby. think she I think he's four weeks old now.

Time flies. mentioned something earlier and you talked about all the stress and that the doctors thought the condition might be stressed, but you said something about a stress cup. that right? You mean by that.

Alicia McKenzie (22:04.908)

Little human, I'm so jealous.

Amri Kibbler (22:15.394)

Yeah. Well, this is how I think about stress. So when you're coming from a place of being in your normal, like you have 100 % and your body uses a lot of its energy when it's healing itself. So you can basically say that 50 % of that cup is going to be already full. Like your capacity for dealing with stress is going to be diminished about 50%, 62 % depending on, you know, what's going on with your body already.

So then when you're throwing in outside stressors, like legal matters and acquisitions and all those things, you have less capacity to be able to show up and to deal with that before you go to a tipping point. Which for me, like when I get to a tipping point now, I can kind of feel it. It's like, I honestly feel like I can't function. And I'll be like, okay, I have to shut my computer. I have to get up. I have to step away.

even for like 15 minutes, go outside or do a little meditation or something. But like I have to clear it and I know the signs now. Whereas before I used to be like, I'm not done. I have to push through. I've got 17 more things on my list. You know, my stress cup is full, but I'm going to keep going. So the stress cup is like when you have to take a break.

gosh. Wow. It's really interesting that you mentioned that because right before this podcast this morning, we were just getting back from San Diego. We took the boys to go see it. LA. Or LA. I'm sorry. They played San Diego Padres. No, I played. But we took last night. They played the Padres. But we took the boys to go to a Dodgers game. So we flew home Monday, which means Monday was kind of a wash. And then today him and I were both in grind mode, like from the second we got up, we're working, he's working. And I was like.

I need to go for a walk. So I did like a 20 minute just quick loop around the neighborhood and then I came in and now here we are. But you're right. It was that feeling of like, I just need to lose some of this stress. Yeah, it's just like a weird energy that I felt and I just needed to get it out.

George McKenzie (24:19.38)

Yeah. I like that. What you said earlier. like depending on the stress that you're, if you're unhealthy or you're dealing with something, then that takes away the availability in the cup for additional outside stressors. if you're really focused on your health and wellbeing personally, you gotta, you leave more room in the cup to deal with outside stressor.

It's true. If you're taking care of your health and wellbeing, thinking about it, it's like you're flushing out that cup. You're giving yourself a larger well and a capacity to be able to deal with things, which makes you a better leader, which makes you more creative. It allows for all of those things to flow when we flush things out. I recently read an article about how your brain uses your spinal fluid to wash itself while you're sleeping, but only when you go into your early sleep.

And I think of it like that, like your body actually is capable of cleansing itself in so many different ways, but we have to help it. We have to allow it to get into a space where it's an arrest phase to clear out a lot of those things, to get the cortisol levels down and get to that nice resting place when you can take on and like feel revved up and conquer things.

And you know, when you throw alcohol in there, your brain doesn't cleanse itself until the alcohol is gone.

It's so true. Yeah, that's one of the bonuses for having cancer. don't drink anymore.

Alicia McKenzie (25:39.374)

Amazing. That was going to be my next question. What are you doing to stay healthy? How do you, I mean, I know you were healthy before and you looked healthy, but as every doctor had told you 10 times over, what do you do now? You don't drink. What's your, are you strength training? you?

Yeah. So I do a lot of things. and it's funny because I always joke around that like cancer made me be healthy because of after the surgery, can only digest things that are easy to digest. So I can't really have a lot of sugar. Can't have dairy. can't have gluten. I can't have coffee. can't have alcohol. There's no butter, no cheese, no fried foods in my life. So for my body to run optimally, it's really just a lot of

You lost me there. You lost me there.

Amri Kibbler (26:25.122)

really well cooked roasted vegetables and chicken and fish and some things like that. So I actually have to eat really healthy, even processed foods don't go down well for me. So I'm like, the universe has set me up so that I don't have a choice, but I really look at exercise very differently. I look at exercise as any kind of movement and getting your heart rate up. So I make sure that every morning when I get up, do...

30 minutes of something like could be a walk, could be a little bit of yoga, but I'm like not thinking of that primarily as my exercise. I do a check-in with my body when I wake up and I'm like, okay, where do I feel tension this morning? What feels stiff? Like what is feeling off? And then I do whatever it is. It feels like it would be a great antidote for that. Like, do I need a little bit of yoga? Do I need to get on the peloton bike and sweat right now? And I do that. And then I do now weight training with a trainer.

once a week, and then I do two Pilates reformer classes a week. So 30 minutes by myself to just like freestyle, whatever it is I think that I need. And if some days if I can't do that, I'll break things up. Like I like to do a little 10 minutes here, like if I'm in a real hurry in the morning, but I have to move somehow. I'll do 10 minutes and then 10 minutes at lunchtime and 10 minutes later, because my oncologist also told me after my surgery, I was like, okay, what can I do? I can't eat kale. I can't eat broccoli right now.

Like all of these things that I'm hearing like anti-cancer foods, I can't have any of those. And he was like, exercise is actually the most important thing that you can do. If you can get seven hours of exercise a week and by that meaning like walking or doing the laundry or like any kind of real movement throughout the day. He's like, that is the best thing that you can do for yourself.

Do you do anything that is off the script like red light therapy, peptide therapy, any of that?

Amri Kibbler (28:17.926)

No, I would love to do red light therapy, but I haven't done that yet. And I kind of live in the middle of nowhere. So there's not any red light sauna places that are near us. I do a lot of the like meditation. Sometimes I do tapping. I do journaling.

You just learned what tapping was.

I love it. I do it in the morning. That's an easy one whenever I feel myself just starting to get stressed out. I can do that one for just like two minutes. I think like all of the wellness modalities you can think of like visualizations. I have 8,000 crystals on my desk, you know, but it's mostly in all of those things what they root back to is taking some quiet time for myself, right? To connect to what it is that is meaningful for me. feel like

I'm aligned with my values, I'm aligned with my goals, and I'm aligned with who I am as a person. And when I feel out of alignment with that, that I pull in one of those modalities, like real quick. It's all tied together, everything in your body and your mind and your wellness. It's so interconnected and each little thing, might feel like a little thing, but it can make a huge difference.

Yeah, that's your toolbox. Yeah.

Amri Kibbler (29:28.142)

I have a big toolbox.

I think it's, it's interesting that the parallels between running a business and what you were just talking about, like being the CEO of your own body, right. Of having your core values, sticking to those. are you living your core values, like in a business setting, same for your CEO of your own body. And then you talked about like the mindfulness and getting up when you feel like your cup is overrunning. So, and I think you said something about you used to just power through it and that now your, your leadership style has kind of changed in that way. So how does.

How does that change and how did your employees kind of react to this new, don't just power through everything.

well, you know, I think my employees probably always thought that I was that way because people have always said that I come off as being very calm and centered and then I make other people feel that way. It was on the inside because I was giving other people always the grace because I have always had the same values. So I was treating other people the way that I should have been treating myself. And I was completely powering through whatever, if something needed to be done, I was not going to stop until it was done. Even if it was.

at the expense of my personal wellbeing and health. But I do think that it has impacted my internal leadership style immensely. Taking that time to center myself personally allowed me to really personal, to center myself as a professional as well. I always have a North Star. I do it with my business and I do it with my personal life. Like whatever the North Star is that I have right at that moment allows me to make choices. And it can be like right at this moment, my North Star.

Amri Kibbler (31:00.49)

is growing my business as compared to right now my North Star is supporting my daughter through a challenge that she's having. So say a speaking opportunity came to me and it was going to be on a day that my daughter was having a school event or something. If I was in North Star, grow my business and I didn't think that it was going to impact her, I would make the decision that I'm sorry, honey, I'm not going to be able to go.

But if it was right now, my North Star is I need to support my daughter through this. And I'd be like, I'm sorry, I can't do it right now because my number one isn't supporting my daughter. And I change it all the time. I can change week by week, but I make all of my decisions based around if they line up with what that top priority is at that time.

was gonna be my next question actually. How often do you change your North Star? But you said it could change week by week.

It can, it can change week by week. it's again, the leaning into myself, how I'm feeling about it. Like what is the part of my life that needs the most of me right now? I mean, it could even be day by day. I could just be like, wow, today my connection to my daughter, it's just, it's just feeling really off. had a bad, a bad day, right? And I could pour into her and by the evening time I could be like, wow, I feel like we're really so connected and wake up in the morning and be like, you know what?

I really want to focus on my personal brand right now. There's so much that I want to do in that space. I'll write it in my journal at the top. Personal brand right now is the North Star. And then so that would impact the decisions that I was making.

Alicia McKenzie (32:27.554)

That's awesome. I heard a term the other day that it really stuck out to me because work-life balance. I don't think anybody has ever achieved it. I don't think it exists as per the title of my book, but he said that he needs his work and his life to be in harmony. And I'm like, okay, I can get down with that. Right. Like it's not always going to be the perfect today. You're doing this. And then this week you're doing this. It's it's so fluid and it just has to work together and it's variable.

So that was something that popped into my head and I'm like, okay, I like that. But it feels a lot like what you're saying, right? Your North Star could change and it's very fluid and everything harmonizes together.

We use that term a lot. I definitely can get down with that. And I think it's that it's like being in harmony with who you are and what your priorities are. And as long as you're making decisions that align with those things, then you're going to feel in harmony because the harmony relates to your internal, your internal self, right? So if you're feeling in harmony with the decisions you're making, you're going to have that. It comes when you're at conflict and that's when the feelings of guilt come about. I found that I don't have those feelings when I know that I'm being true to like

what my North Star is because I know that if say my daughter really needs me and she needs to be my number one, I'm going to make her my number one.

Yeah, definitely. All right, let's kind of turn the page a little bit. You have one podcast. You're starting another one. Explain to me the why behind it and then what's it about?

Amri Kibbler (34:02.574)

So my new podcast is called The Space Between Navigating Cancer and Family Life. And I just found that when I was going through cancer, I could not find the resources that I needed. I was trying to have these tough conversations with my little kids. I was trying to connect with other people in my life. Like, it was really hard. People were saying the wrong thing. I needed support. And so I also just wanted to connect with other parents and parents and their caregivers.

and have those conversations and understand what was going on for them. And as I started just connecting with other people, this whole just crazy universe of things came tumbling out. And I'm like, my gosh, wow, like what about infertility after you have treatment? What if you want to have other kids? What about if you're a single parent and you want to start dating after you've had a mastectomy?

What about if your partner has cancer after you have cancer? There's so many things. How are you parenting your kids when you're exhausted? Are you making more space for them in that? Do you stick to your normal parenting patterns? There's so many different things. And I also found that when I was in treatment, I didn't really want to watch TV that much. I was sitting in a chair when I was doing chemo.

And I would listen to things. was listening to podcasts and I was always in transit to a doctor and a doctor's office waiting. And I thought this would be the perfect way to have these conversations in a space that feels warm and inviting with other thrivers who are parents. And then also some amazing experts that I'm having in to be a part of this. so yes, I'm a community builder, but this is like my passion project right now that

I just really wanted to create this space. I found a lot of conversations that were for parents of kids that have cancer, but not conversations for how is the parent managing all of this? How are they doing everything that they need to do? And how are they able to thrive and not just to feel like they're surviving through the day?

Alicia McKenzie (36:14.35)

So you just can't sit still.

I can't sit still and I have to have a passion. And this has been percolating that I've been wanting to do this for probably like a year. And I started doing research and having conversations with people. And then I put together a white paper and on the problem. And then I was like, did someone already do this? Is this out there? Could I just share somebody else's? Because I don't need to reinvent the wheel. And I'm like, I'm not finding it. Like, OK, well, I love having conversations. Let's just do it. And I was going to launch it.

at the end of the summer or in September. And then I just decided I'm gonna launch it this week. Like, you know what? I've already recorded seven episodes. My goal here is just to get this information out for parents, just to share with them. And so why hold onto it? Why not go ahead and get it out there? If this can help anyone now and today, then I wanna just do it as soon as possible.

Yeah, that could be someone that needs to hear what you have to say tomorrow or next week. Right. And why, it's very interesting. Like the, can imagine having that conversation with your, your, your kids around your diagnosis is probably a very difficult conversation because, know, children may or may not know a lot about cancer and what they do know is probably the only thing that yeah. But yeah, so having, you know,

It's very scary.

George McKenzie (37:36.554)

a blueprint or some sort of guideline for hey, this is how to have that kind of conversation. It seems like it's very much needed.

It's definitely needed. it's an ongoing thing because kids do have their idea of cancer as the big scary thing, but kids also forget things pretty easily. And now there's been so many different innovations and new treatments that a lot of times people don't look sick. So I never looked sick, the kind of chemo I had, I didn't lose my hair. So was very confusing for my younger daughter. She like couldn't get it.

Well, why can't mommy go on the tube in the lake with me? Like, why won't you do this with me? You know? And so she got super angry and like scream at me, you're not really sick. You just want to take all the attention, you know? And so that's a very different connection and relationship than, you know, the mom who does use her hair and who looks sick and maybe her older daughter is like super scared and worried about her. So there's a lot of different nuances there. so

I think there's not just a script. It's about like, okay, let me hear from somebody who has a similar situation and also some experts. I'm having a talk with the American Cancer Society and a couple of others about these different conversations with kids and like age specific and different kind of nuances that could be a part of it as well.

aspect of this is awareness. Can you speak to the fact that more younger people are getting diagnosed with colorectal cancer?

Amri Kibbler (39:11.916)

Yes, I can speak to that, but I can also tell you that amazingly overall, the cancer rates are going down. Less people are dying of cancer. Scarily, the cancer rates for people under the age of 50 are going up, like way up. And it's happening. It's not just colorectal cancer, which is the number one, no, the number two killer for men under the age of 50 is colorectal cancer. But

Breast cancer under the age of 50 is going up. Skin cancer under the age of 50 is going up. So unfortunately, there is a new face of cancer. And with that, that means that as younger and younger people are getting cancer, there's going to be a lot more parents, a lot more people with dependents, they're still like in the height of their careers. So they're juggling a lot of things where, you know, what you think of as

someone getting cancer or colorectal cancer, you think that, they're like heading into retirement. If they have kids or adult kids, they can, you know, relax on the couch all day. Like we're talking about, these are people who are taking care of little ones. They've got jobs that they have to go to. They're managing their household. And even if they're, you know, able to rest, then all that's going to go over to their partner. So I always say the partner really needs a lot of support. And I think that

People forget that sometimes that the partners really need to check in and the partners need someone to say like, hey, can I help you with something because they're doing everything if the cancer patient is lucky enough to have a partner. So there's a lot, there's like a million things to unpack there.

So get your colonoscopies, get your skin checks, breast cancer awareness, all of it.

George McKenzie (40:58.744)

Learn, I think the other thing is that learn what your normal is.

Learn what your normal is. It's the same thing with doing your self breast exam, right? You know how your body feels better than any doctor that's going to be with you for a few minutes. Know how your digestion is. Take your time when you're eating, chew slowly, just like take a few minutes. And all of these things are things that we should know that our grandmother has told us to do all of our life. Like really and truly some of the major like health care things that we can do. Spend time when you're eating, just taking a deep breath.

and paying attention to your body in the morning, pay attention to your body, pay attention to your mental health and the way that you're feeling and make note of anything that feels out of the ordinary. And then once you make a note, would say keep a journal for a few weeks and make note, detailed notes of what it is that is out of the ordinary for you so that then when you go to your doctor and they ask you all those questions, you don't have to go away and do that work because that's what they're going to ask you to do.

Yeah, I've become a really big advocate of just functional wellness. I get my blood work done quarterly. I have a nurse practitioner that I speak to on a regular basis. She looks at it she's like, well, you're a little low here. Let's do an IV for this, right? It's more, she is proactive and she was in general medicine and she said she just didn't like the feeling of just being reactionary and okay, you feel this way. So let's just give you an antibiotic and see what happens versus.

Let's try to keep you from getting to that point of feeling bad and let's just stay ahead of your wellness. So like you said, fill out your normal and find something that works, whether it's twice a week or twice a year blood work, just stay ahead of it.

Amri Kibbler (42:38.828)

Me too. I started seeing an atropath and I love it. It's amazing because I can know ahead of time. She gets my blood work in, makes a few little tweaks and I know what's happening in there. And then my other thing is I go to the acupuncturist regularly. Like I am obsessed with my acupuncture. She's amazing. She does a little bit of cupping. She does a little bit of gua sha. But I feel like all of those preventative things that we can do, it's like taking care of your car, you know?

You can't just run it into the ground. It needs to tune up all the time. Yeah. Like on a regular basis, it can't just be when things start to feel like they're, they're off.

We need some maintenance.

Alicia McKenzie (43:18.636)

Absolutely. I feel like I could talk to you forever, but in the essence of time, is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience? Where can we find you? Any other companies that you've got cooking up in the background?

just for now, so you can find me on my website, amrekybler.com. I'm on, at amrekybler on Instagram, LinkedIn, on all the things. And then my new podcast is the space between underscore cancer dot family.

Amazing. And what is the other podcast that you host as well?

The other podcast that I host is called Leaning Into Being and it's at Leaning Into Being podcast on Instagram and it's all about redefining success and how hard it is to slow down as a successful accomplished woman. It's impossible.

It's impossible. That's why we're not going to do it. Well, thank you for coming on. It was great having you. Yes. All the amazing things. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Amri Kibbler (44:14.154)

It was so great being a-

Awesome.

Alicia McKenzie (44:19.66)

Thank you for tuning in to Mary to the Startup. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please take a moment to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast. Your support helps us reach more people and keeps the conversation going. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, drop me a message. I love hearing from you guys. Until next time.

George out.