George McKenzie (00:00.046)

You don't realize that you need that community even as an adult. And then when you're running a small business and you're the CEO of a small business, it's incredibly lonely. Right? Like, are conversations you can't have with your employees because they are like, oh shit, I'm not going to get paid. You're the parent. Oh my God, there's a cash flow. Having these communities where you can talk to people and it's not a networking thing.

You're the pair.

Alicia McKenzie (00:27.284)

Welcome to Married to the Startup. I'm Alicia McKenzie, a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator. Alongside me is my amazing husband, George, the CEO who's always ready for a new challenge. We've been navigating marriage and running startups for over a decade, and we're here to share the real, unfiltered journey with you. Join us for insights and candid conversations about integrating love, family, and entrepreneurship. This is Married to the Startup, where every day is a new adventure.

Hammer back.

Good job. You like that? Maybe you should lead us.

No thank you. No one must hear me talk.

Welcome to episode 43. Geez. I know. It's older than I am. Get it. Thank you for acknowledging. Your daughter actually called me old in the car today.

George McKenzie (01:09.942)

almost as old as I am. Yes, yes, you're young, we all

George McKenzie (01:19.498)

I mean from a 13 year old girl's perspective you kind of

And then I showed her a picture of Novak Djokovic and she was like, yeah, you guys look the same age. I think he's my age. He's 38. But she said, I was kind of offended that she said we look the same age. I think he looks old AF because he plays tennis and a lot of his time in the sun.

Is he 39?

George McKenzie (01:41.366)

The sun? Probably doesn't have a good skin care routine.

does not have a good skincare routine. It is. It is. Nobody wants to look like a leather bag in their late 30s. Not a vibe. Not a vibe. All right. We are officially on our last day of summer.

It's all about skincare.

George McKenzie (01:53.592)

Cowboys.

George McKenzie (01:59.214)

Yeah, it's not like the, I don't think it's, is it officially like the end of summer for, like as a season or just our end of summer?

It's our end of summer.

And a lot of other people have already had their end of summer, like their kids have already gone back to school.

Yeah, there's some kids that have been in school for like two, three weeks already. Not our kids.

Yeah. I remember when we were in Isle of Palm, like South Carolina, they were back the first or second week in August. It crazy.

Alicia McKenzie (02:25.614)

They went back to school while we were still there. It does, but then once we got back to DC, I'm like, these weeks are just dragging on.

sucks to be you.

George McKenzie (02:35.854)

I was talking to someone this morning and he and I were both commiserating on, think, you I have run out of all the cool, fun and interesting things I can do as a dad with these kids. Like my coloring has reached its limit. My this is, I'm done. I don't know any other fun activities I can come up with. I'm finished. Yes, I am completely done.

I don't want to entertain you anymore. Right? And it's just like, Hey, look at this. Hey, look at this. Mom, look at this. Mom, look at this. I'm like, I don't want to look at you.

It used to be, I guess when I was a kid, I would just go out and play with my friends. It's just not a thing anymore. At least not for our kids. I'm sure it's for-

other kids. go outside and they play with each other but I'm like there are tons of kids in this neighborhood go knock on doors like

You don't want to go knock on doors. Ding dong dash and people get shot now. Now you're like, don't knock on people's doors. God forbid you show up unannounced.

Alicia McKenzie (03:22.882)

Right.

Alicia McKenzie (03:28.276)

I know. That's weird. Anyways, yeah, so now I think the big thing that they do is they go down to the creek. Dramatic pause. Yeah, they go down to the creek and they try to catch fish and crawfish and that kind of stuff. And then they come home like 35, 40 minutes later, wet and stinky. But at least that buys me like a little bit of silence and peace so I can attempt to do something productive. But we actually had a listener email in...

Down to the crick.

Alicia McKenzie (03:55.616)

a good suggestion. And it's just talking about the emotions and the anxiety and all of those feelings that bubble up when you are getting ready to go into a new situation, such as starting fourth grade for the first time or second grade or fifth grade or whatever grade you have. And how do you manage those emotions? And are those emotions learned traits? Right. I think us as parents,

are responsible for instilling some of these emotions in those children, right? Those anxious feelings and things that you can look in the mirror and be like, yeah, that came from me. Yeah, for sure. I think you're the more anxious one.

I think I have anxiety for sure, yeah. But I think when it comes to dealing with new situations, don't think, I don't know. Like I handle speaking in front of crowds or doing uncomfortable meetings or doing this, like those are fine.

That's fine. You don't have any business anxiety, which is, I feel like that's weird.

No, it's, I think that's one of the things I like about the school our kids go to is that they force them to speak in public and they kind of manufacture those uncomfortable situations and they get over it as a, and learn the coping skills and mechanisms younger in life. think, you know, to your point, being in a new situation, going into fourth grade and moving from lower school to intermediate school or middle school, and then going from being at home all day to your first preschool or going from.

George McKenzie (05:29.966)

high school student to a college student. All those are big transitions. I think helping kids deal with that younger in life to understand the skills and how to cope with the uncomfortable situation and make new friends and meet new people and speak in front of groups translates into future life and dealing with those. first job, your first interview, your first day after being promoted, your first what have you.

But I think children look to parents in any situation to figure out how they should feel in that moment. So I'll just give you an example. I think I was bathing Maya, and I got an email, and it annoyed the shit out of me. And you could see it all over my face. And she looks up, and she goes, are you upset, Mommy? And I'm like, oh, Bean. So I put the phone away just so my emotions are all over my face. I have a very, very hard time concealing that.

I don't know how to get better.

Right? If I'm annoyed, you see it. If I'm mad, you see it. If I'm happy, you see it. Actually, if I'm happy, that's just my face, right? Like they say I have a really strong resting bitch face, which is, it is what it Such a face. Right? That is just my face. And my girls tell that, like they say the same thing. Ava and Michaela will be like, that's just my face. I'm not mad. That's why we don't have wrinkles. But yes, your children are looking to you to understand how to feel in the moment. Right? Especially in...

Sure.

Alicia McKenzie (06:58.806)

something that makes you uncomfortable, they're naturally going to feel uncomfortable. But if you create this narrative and you create a story around going to school is going to be so much fun because there's nine playgrounds and you're going to make new friends. And sure, there might be some people that you aren't going to get along with, but then you redirect and you go play with somebody you do get along with, right? And it's forcing that it's okay to...

Not like everybody, but you have to respect everybody.

Yeah, that's a great learned behavior. I wish more people knew that.

Hahaha.

More adults had that same lesson as a child.

Alicia McKenzie (07:37.39)

Absolutely, I think I don't have to like you. I don't have to agree with you, but I can guarantee you that we will have a mutual shared respect and the second you decide to Turn from that agreement then put him up bitch. Just kidding. Just kidding. I'm a lover not a fighter

think it's interesting that, you know, think at least our kids, there's different types of people. There's some people that absorb whatever emotion is around them and when they see it, then that becomes their emotion. And then there's other people that, you know, their emotion trumps everybody else's. Like they could care less. If you're upset and they're happy, they're happy. They don't care. you know.

Emotional vampires. Yeah, exactly. There's emotional vampires. Yeah, absolutely. Like if you're having a bad day, then everybody around you is going to have a bad day. Right? You are an emotional vampire. You are sucking the happiness out of the room. And great, maybe you don't know you're doing it. But then if somebody tells you and be like, hey, maybe you need to calm it down a little bit, don't get defensive. Maybe just approach it with curiosity. Right? Be like, am I doing this?

Mm-hmm. It's a grumpy monkey book. It is the thing it goes back to everything can be solved in childhood. my grumpy monkey. Okay

God. That's why I'm so passionate about children's books.

George McKenzie (08:53.966)

Yeah. mean, some of them, teach valuable lessons, it, you know, just how they're discussed at such a juvenile level. But the lesson doesn't make it any smaller.

And that was one thing. I actually was working with a content creator, Hi Val, and she was saying that my new book, my children's book, these ABCs belong to me. She's like, I learned something from it when I read it. Right? And I think that's the whole point of children's books. It's to take tangible lessons and put them in a format that everybody can understand and learn from. And I'm really like, I love a good children's book. Like, Giraffes Can't Dance, the best children's book.

think that's why I love Disney so much, just because all the Disney movies are geared toward children. They're thematic and normally have a lesson, but they also have attributes in the movies that are geared toward adults. So you get stuff out of it.

Absolutely. Are you sure they're not grooming our kids?

That's possible. don't know. I'm just ready to get my kids back to school. That's Yeah. But it's interesting. Like I think the question about the new beginnings and starting new chapters and how, you know, bringing, how do you deal with the emotions of that? with children, it's, it's funny because I related a lot of things to sports, but it's the same with like, you know, let's say baseball with the boys is the parents get so into it and so.

Alicia McKenzie (09:57.164)

Now do need to go back to

George McKenzie (10:19.616)

into the winning and losing and all these things. And the kids really don't care. And then when they do get emotional about it, it's not only because they fed off the emotion of an adult that made it. So I think it's probably very similar. Like I'm sure kids are a little bit nervous of going to the next grade or going the next thing, but they feed off the energy of the parent. And if you, you set a positive, happy, like, Hey, this is great. This is an amazing thing. You're going from this to that.

Absolutely.

George McKenzie (10:49.166)

that translates into how they view it versus the negativity.

For sure. I think it's just you have to prepare them. It's your job as a parent to set the right mindset going into the next situation. And I'll talk about a math packet that I didn't realize was actually.

Which one? There's two.

No, the older child's math packet. Apparently, it was full of things that they haven't taught yet. Who knew? Our eighth grader knew. Ready. Our eighth grader was like, yeah, no, they don't learn long division until fourth grade. I'm like, oh. Oh, wow. OK, well then now he's got a head start on long division. So now he's excited for math. Or he's excited for fourth grade math because he's going to learn things that he's already aware of.

Yeah, it's too-

George McKenzie (11:36.812)

I think our journey this year has been a little interesting too, because we have all over the spectrum. We do. our oldest, we dropped off in college, which was a similar new experience for her, a new experience for us. And I think it couldn't have gone better. I think it was a great drop off. We were about to have that moment where you're going to leave the room and your child is going to be on one side of the door and you're on the other side of the door and you're leaving and they're staying. And it's this weird separation point where

You know, the emotions come to the forefront and kind of bailed out because one of the volleyball captains came running in and said, all right, Ava, let's go. We got a team dinner. We're all leaving. And then, oh, everything's like a frenzy and everyone has to go. And it made everything like, oh, she's not on other side of the door and she's, she's going to dinner with her, with her team and we're leaving because we're not going. Yeah. Just made it a little easier. And then, you know, we'll see on Thursday, the youngest is her first day of.

preschool. So we're having like both ends of the spectrum there. The one leaving the nest and actually living somewhere else. And then one who is leaving the nest to go to school for the first time. It's crazy. She's so excited.

Yeah, it is definitely. She's so excited. She's so excited and she's already got a friend in school and I'm really excited for her. But I think I am a true advocate of travel sports and playing on sports, playing on a sports team through high school into college. I just feel like the transition was so much easier for the oldest girl because

she had that security blanket in her team.

George McKenzie (13:20.526)

Yeah, a built-in fun group, which is nice.

It's a built-in community. And I think that is just something that I cannot stress enough, is that it's all about your in-person community. Who's going to be there when you're sad and be like, no, let's go out. Let's go get ice cream. Who's going to be there when you've got a breakup going on? They're going be like, all right, we're not going to sit in here and, whoa, let's get the fuck out. Let's go do something. You need that community. I cannot stress it enough. honestly, I'd be the happiest parent in the world if all of our kids played.

in high school and then went on to play in college. But it's only 7%.

Yeah. And then it's interesting. just, just popped into my head. So I had lunch with someone, I think it was last week or the week before, but the other end of the spectrum, right? Like you don't realize that you, you need that community even as an adult. And then when you're running a small business and you're the CEO of a small business, it's incredibly lonely. Yeah. Right. Like you can't talk to your employees about the stressors that you have. Hopefully you can talk to your spouse if you have one, but having a

a group of like-minded people or at least people you can talk to that aren't judging and aren't like trying to direct you or have a vested stake in the game. You can just say, know, God, man, you know, just making payroll last week was so stressful. And, you know, we had, uh, you know, our AR is at maybe net 60 and, you know, normally we're at net 40 and the drag on cash is really killing. And, you these are conversations you can't have with your employees because they

George McKenzie (14:53.518)

are like, shit, I'm not gonna get paid. You're the parent. my God, there's a cash problem. You can't. It's amazing that, you know, there's, I'm sure there's plenty of groups and I'm just not a part of them, but having these communities where you can talk to people and it's not a networking thing. Yeah. It's just, hey, no, I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm not trying to climb onto your customer base. I'm not trying to use you for introductions. It's more of, you know, this person I just reached out to randomly because I was, you know, I was actually trying to...

Great, you're the parent.

George McKenzie (15:21.6)

I'm trying to figure out what I want to do next or had some ideas. I was just bouncing ideas off of them. And it was good to have a conversation where neither person was benefiting from the other person's stuff. It was just a conversation.

And I think that's important too, right? You don't want, I don't want you to try to problem solve for me. I just want a fucking vent, right? I just want to talk. I don't want you to solve my problems. And I think you need that mindset going in, right? Like I'm sitting across the hall from you or I'm sitting across the table and I'm like, I just want to talk. That's it. I don't need feedback on what I should do different. I don't need, and actually I might need your advice, but.

Yeah, I mean, you know, was a she was asking for advice on certain things, but like some of it is, hey, you just, yeah, you're everything you're doing is right. It's just hard. The way it happens.

just fucking hard. Exactly. Right. And if it was easy, everybody'd be doing it. And that is like one thing that I'm constantly saying in my head. Like if this shit was easy, everyone would be an entrepreneur.

And the self doubt, you gotta just try to keep it at bay.

Alicia McKenzie (16:23.744)

Yeah. All right. since we're kind of leaning into the next topic, let's shift to can we talk about sales?

Now I hate sales.

Please. Sure. Let's talk about sales.

Yes, let's talk about sales pain.

All right, so you as the CEO of a company, you get a cold email trying to sell your product. What do do?

George McKenzie (16:46.752)

I am probably a poor example of this.

I know you are. know you are so mine. My question is that. know what's really funny is that somebody left a voicemail for George and they're like, Hey, George, me. Don't hang up. Yeah. Or like, don't delete this.

Yeah, you got to get it out in the first three seconds. And if it, if you can't get it out, I'm deleting.

Yeah, it's wild watching him listen through, actually not even listen to voicemails, like literally just delete voicemails. But if a person can get a product through to you, it's very impressive. Yes. What do you respond to?

I don't respond to email. So it's not email or voicemail. It's more of one, either I'm in the market for that, right? And then I'm looking at looking to try to figure out how to solve my problem or get the outcome that I want. it's, you know, most of the time it's either referrals or I know someone who's solved the same problem or has given me a referral of a company that solves that problem. I...

George McKenzie (17:48.802)

I'm sure I'm probably one of the few, but I still, I'd like to walk the floors on tech conferences and walk around the edges, not the middle where people spend millions on marketing to get this huge booth. You know, trying to do that without, I don't want to get my badge scanned every five seconds, but I'd like to walk around and just see what the product does and hear, you know, non-salespeople or people that aren't like a millimeter deep on what the product does, trying to sell it to me.

So, you for me, think I still like the founder led sales model or people that are really ingrained in what it is they're selling. Or like, you know, almost the broker model where you have someone that you trust that you can share the problem set with and that they're helping you solve the problem set with third parties. So I don't think I, you know, I'm not the typical, from a business side, I'm not the typical.

Like I won't respond to emails and those things unless you have a vehicle in which, you know, I've used before. But on the personal side, yeah, I probably respond to, think it's, you know, whatever social media pops up gets me a lot. The algorithm knows how to market to me.

my god.

It's very comical.

George McKenzie (19:01.87)

It's not even me, it's like, oh, here's this new thing that'll help your kids, or this will help the house. So this is a better way to do X, Y, or Z.

How many dud t-shirts have you bought off social media because the algorithm got you?

that knows.

But the shirts suck. They do.

But you never know, one day.

Alicia McKenzie (19:25.144)

Cool. One day and $15,000.

It's like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get. You got to just keep trying. What are you using and are you seeing any results? For me, my sales teams. Sales is always hard and top-of-the-funnel is extremely hard. I think everyone has the same problem and I know that people are trying to use AI to solve that problem of top-of-the-funnel using it to do those automated emails, automated marketing campaigns.

All right, so the.

George McKenzie (19:56.75)

I'm sure it's a volume game, you know, I always found the best success was spending money going to conferences where I can have that human interaction. Cause you know, a lot of people, sure. A lot of people going to conferences are going to events for the boondoggle. I mean, you're going to have X percent to do that.

Definitely.

Alicia McKenzie (20:15.564)

You might have to explain what boondoggle for this generation.

well, it's just, okay. So it's really when you're going somewhere or doing something under the guise of it being for work, but it's all about pleasure. Right. So you're saying, Hey, I'm going to this conference in Las Vegas, corporate America or my boss. Hey, will you pay for this to me to go to this conference? Cause it's learning and continuing education. And I'm going to take XYZ classes and I'm going to look at what's new in the market.

You know, your boss says, yes, here you go. I'll approve the travel and the flight and the hotel and the &E. And then you go there and you don't go to any talks and you just gamble and drink. fun.

Sounds like my kind of weekend. didn't, we did not go to Vegas this year. No, I meant for Black Hat Duck.

Have not. We're going in a couple weeks now.

George McKenzie (21:09.39)

No, we did not. We haven't gone two years in a row.

Wow, it's almost like we're growing up.

No, just in the sabbatical phase. Now I think I'm just going to AI conferences because that's more exciting to me.

Yeah.

Alicia McKenzie (21:22.456)

Seriously, seriously, so you're like an in-person sales type type deal

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I used to love. Well, people come in and I did it in previous lives where you dedicate one day a month where you'd bring vendors in and let them pitch.

that sounds fun.

That was a way to keep abreast of the market of what's happening and then also have someone in there that's selling and you can ask questions to and get answers versus a website that most of them have vaporware and they show you imagery of an AIX, a UX design that's not real. And then you get a white paper that says nothing but marketing buzzwords.

Okay, who is your favorite salesperson? Who was like the best person at sales that you've ever met? You don't have to say a name. Don't say a name.

George McKenzie (22:09.934)

I think I've had a couple, most of them were, oh, I'm sure you know who it is. It's probably from back in the CBP days. He was more of just coming in and he would bring in technologies and say, hey, what do think about this? And then he would get your feedback on it as if, hey, I'm interested in reselling or working with this company. What do you think about them? And then you'd view them and you'd talk to them and you'd be like, oh, they're okay. They seem cool. Or, you know, I like the technology or no, it's.

But make it so I know who it is.

George McKenzie (22:38.926)

far behind and then he would, if it's a great conversation, he would come back and say, Hey, can we do a follow up and let's get a little deeper in it. then, you know, is there anything in your coming and this year on your project list that this might address or be a part of? And then he, you know, just was someone that didn't just fire when he wanted a sale, right? It just, Hey, let me get on your calendar so can sell you this. was someone who got on our calendar every couple of weeks and just went to launch or we went to games or we hung out.

And then it became when I had a problem, that's the person I would call to solve it versus them selling me. think that sometimes in my view, those are the best salesmen are the ones that have relationships and they can build relationships quickly with customers. And they're hard to find.

And yeah, my best salesman that I've ever met, Anthony Woods.

Alicia McKenzie (23:34.134)

And I'm only saying his name because he lived in the DC area and it was, you would hear his name on the junkies all the time. Right? You need to call my man, Anthony Woods. He was the best non-salesy salesman that I have ever met. Right? And it was like you said, you build that relationship and like he just made you feel comfortable. And when we needed a car, well, Anthony, we need a car. Right? And that's who we went to. Like it wasn't any of this.

Let's go car hunting.

car shop. It's interesting, like there's companies built all around the top of the funnel that will do, you know, work with you to develop a script and then they'll do the cold calling and they'll do email campaigns and they get paid for meetings. Yeah. For getting meetings. But I mean, I've had limited success with that. I mean, it has to be, you know, you have to have some product that you're selling that solves a specific need. Absolutely. It's almost like, you know, thread and a needle.

You have exactly this product that solves this customer set and go market who's in the market for that. Go sell it to them. And if you have a, like a services based business or something that may be a little broader in its solution set, it may be, it's probably not as easy. Like the Accenture model, the Deloitte model, those big consulting firms, you know, they come in and they are the trusted advisor to solve a problem. that consultant led selling model, I think is probably what I'm better at and what most

of the people that I know that are great salesmen are more like that. But then, you know, there's other friends we know like Gavin and other people that were great at selling stuff. Yeah. And I think that that's one of the hardest positions to fill because if they're a really good salesman, they probably don't need a job. I probably already have one, they're killing it. And then there's a lot of salesmen that turn CEO because they're so successful at selling, right? They're great at it. That they start their own company or they get brought in to be CEO because they're such great sellers.

Alicia McKenzie (25:08.396)

Yes, if you got it, you got it.

Alicia McKenzie (25:28.748)

And then there's those that sell you on their capabilities but don't actually produce anything.

And then you got to stay on top of it. you create the, you know, your KPIs around sales, know, it's, you know, lead gen top of funnel, your conversion rates, you know, are you moving, progressing deals, you know, up the deal stages, you know, what are your thresholds for each deal stage? But all of that investment, you know, unless they're a raging asshole, you can tell right away, you know, it's going to take what? At least a quarter or two. If you pull the trigger after the first quarter, then maybe

You you knew it wasn't the right fit to begin with, or it's just so bad, or she's just so bad that you know in a quarter. But let's say most time you won't know for two quarters because, you know, by the time they get hired, they're ramping up, they build their funnel, progress a few deals. You know, it's going to be six months into the year before you know. It's very expensive.

Yeah, it's an expensive boo-boo to hire the wrong person. It is.

Hiring the wrong person in any environment is an expensive boo boo and I've plenty of expensive boo boos in my life. But yeah, I think we were listening to the same podcast and I've read articles on it before and it was funny because I've used the same vernacular at DefensePoint. They were talking about how critically important it is, your first hires within a small business. And we had that saying at DPS and I think it was the same thing that the person on the podcast said, which is why I thought it was so weird.

Alicia McKenzie (26:47.992)

Yeah.

George McKenzie (26:55.918)

because we were using that same terminology, 15. But it was, know, as soon as you introduce a B player into the team, right, then the slide happens. Because A players want to work with other A players, A players want to hire other A players, and they all want to, you know, we used to say, iron sharpens iron, they all want to work together to get better, and they enjoy the camaraderie, and they feel, you know,

10 years ago.

Alicia McKenzie (27:05.844)

god yeah.

George McKenzie (27:23.786)

validated in the place that they work because everyone's working just as hard as them and everyone is just as capable as them and everyone is great. And then you introduce a B player, then that B player brings everybody down and B players only know how to hire other B and C players. So as soon as you start letting them make hiring decisions or interviewing, they can only see B and C. They can never see an A. And it's a slow ride to purgatory.

Thank

George McKenzie (27:51.47)

It's interesting. The one thing I didn't know is he said on that podcast that Elon had personally interviewed the first 3,000 SpaceX employees.

That's insane. How do you even have the time?

But I mean, it goes to show how important hires are. think even more so in this environment where I think because of the federal layoffs, because AI is making entry-level jobs harder, it's probably even more critical that your first hires, or not just every hire. Any hire. You spend the time to really make sure it's the right hire.

Absolutely. And then when you figure out it isn't, you need to rectify it quickly. Yeah. B players, C players, it's a slow dilution of your talent pool.

So they say hire slow, fire fast. It's easier said than done. Firing people sucks. It is not, and I've done it one-on-one and I've done it en masse and it sucks every time.

Alicia McKenzie (28:36.511)

Yeah.

It's not fun.

Alicia McKenzie (28:45.996)

Yeah, we actually, we just brought on, I think, our first official hire. And she's great. She was interviewed by me and somebody on my team. And she's fantastic. But she's young and she's hungry. And I think, especially with the layoffs. hi, Olive. Puppies over here, bear in her belly. She wants to be a pet. But with the layoffs, I've been seeing an uptick in people just reaching out with resumes and so on and so forth. And yeah.

Yeah, it's great. was just talking to you earlier. I read the article, they were interviewing the CEO of Salesforce and he was saying that he shaved like 17 % of his workforce globally because of AI and AI agents and agentic AI. And specifically in the call center support or online support calls, at the beginning of the year he had 9,000 global service engineers and now

They are 4,000. the rest of, but the ticket request didn't slow down, calls didn't slow down, email or the online chat inquiries didn't slow down. He's just able to have AI agents that can handle most of the problems so they don't need a human.

And just referring back to that conversation I had with an AI agent that I did not know I was talking to an AI agent for about a minute into that conversation. So the conversation flowed just like I were talking to a human. It was consistent back and forth. There was no like, I'm thinking, there was none of that. And it sounded so real. It sounded like I was talking to a person.

Yeah, they're getting better and better.

George McKenzie (30:28.12)

So if you think about, you got layoffs, have AI replacing jobs. All the more critical that, you you spend the time to hire the right person. Because there's probably a lot of talent out there.

Which was actually speaking like hiring the right person like even during an interview Who was I talking to that interviewed somebody and she did not do her research at all and the interview failed miserably I can't remember I think it was a friend of mine But she said that she always tosses these little softball questions to gauge whether or not she's even looked to gauge whether or not the person on the other end has looked up the company and That softball just pure strikeout. It was really sad

But then when you toss those softballs and you have somebody that is able to give you an intelligent answer and then elaborate on it, you're like, OK, I like you.

Another use case for AI like prep me for this

my gosh, right? Just ask chat GPT.

George McKenzie (31:26.318)

or Claude or Grock or whatever. say hey, prep me for this interview. What should I know about the company? Give me three great questions to ask.

Like do that. I don't even care that you do that. It just shows that you're putting some effort into getting hired. Like this is something I want to beat into my children's heads.

Yeah. And I think that most of the, there'll be some of those AI jobs that are quickly replaced today, like the help desk type jobs or things that are repeatable. And then the rest is going to be most likely amplification of the workforce where white collar jobs are using AI to be more productive. So if you're using AI to help you get the job, I think my side of it would be, well, that's great. Cause you're going to use AI when you get this job. So I would rather you have the skillset.

and understand prompt engineering to help with your interview so that you're going to be able to use it when you start day one.

Definitely. Okay. What are your thoughts on founders using AI? Too much.

George McKenzie (32:24.27)

Not too much. I don't know.

Is AI psychosis a thing? we talk about this already? I think I know you and I have talked about it. I just don't know whether we brought it on the pod.

We've talked about it,

George McKenzie (32:35.886)

No, I don't believe we have. But yeah, the fact that people are using it and you retain almost little to nothing. Yes. The more you use it. if you don't use it, you... Is that correct? I think that's what 40-year-old Virgin told us.

Absolutely.

Lose it?

Alicia McKenzie (32:54.422)

Yeah, but here's the thing, like you can't have a fifth tier, like a 10 word prompt for chat GPT and have it sprout out four pages of shit and then copy and paste that and not even retain a little bit, right? Like that's a misuse of artificial intelligence.

But I can tell you one thing, you get lulled in. I do too. It's like I used it to help create practice plans. And the first couple you start reading and then you go through the first couple weeks of it and you're like, this good. And then you just stop and then you, well, give me one for throwing mechanics. And then you look at it a little bit and you're like, this is good. And then, you know, give me one for fielding mechanics. And then you don't even read it because you're like, it's following the same one. Right? Yeah. And easy.

to get lost in that and I could see it.

You said practice plans. Practice plans. I'm like, what are we practicing? I wasn't sure if you were talking about business or baseball.

I haven't started a difference.

Alicia McKenzie (33:51.342)

Yes, one pays you and one does not. One just takes your money. How much money have you spent on

one just takes my money.

No, I said that yesterday. We were at travel baseball hitting practice and I was looking at the sea of bags and bats and batting gloves and baseball gloves and helmets all scattered about. And I just looked at one of the other parents and I was like, I wonder how much money is right here on the ground. It's several thousands of dollars.

Easily five grand worth of baseball here.

Everybody go, every season you need a new bat, you need a new this. And then the bats like, I didn't even realize it. These composite bats are like children. didn't know it, but you, you're not supposed to use them when the temperature is below 60 degrees and you can't, you're not supposed to store it in the garage or in the car. You're to bring it in the house. It has to stay at 60 degrees or warmer. guess the composite material, it starts to break down. I did not know that.

Alicia McKenzie (34:50.282)

Okay. I draw the line bringing these bats in the house.

You need like multiple bats. You need a bat for below 60 degrees Fahrenheit. You need a bat for over 60 degrees. need... That's crazy.

I'm putting my foot down. All right. Well, in the essence of time, I manage AI, Alexa cook dinner. Yes.

Yeah, sure.

I manage rent.

George McKenzie (35:12.462)

The optimist robot will cook dinner. It's going to be 80 % of Tesla's revenue soon. Phase four. Me either. I want it to cook dinner and clean the house. My car?

Can't wait. Love it. Can't wait.

Alicia McKenzie (35:22.914)

We got to clean the house down. No, just fucking cook. I don't want to cook anymore. We need a chef.

Yeah, an AI chef. It's like the Jetsons. They had a chef. That was AI.

What was our name? Betty. Rosie. loved the Jetsons. Did you really? Yes.

Rosie, you didn't even watch the Jetson.

Alicia McKenzie (35:45.194)

Damn it. He had a son? Connor. lost. Elroy. Elroy? I feel like you just made that I didn't mind All right, guys, we're done.

Nope. Ciao. Nope.

George McKenzie (35:57.762)

Peace!

Alicia McKenzie (36:01.272)

Thank you for tuning in to Mary to the Startup. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please take a moment to like, rate, and subscribe to our podcast. Your support helps us reach more people and keeps the conversation going. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, drop me a message. I love hearing from you guys. Until next time. George out.