George McKenzie (00:00.184)

to maintain a trusting relationship. It's an active process, not passive. It's not like you reach trust and then you have it. No, it's continual. Like you continually have to talk about things. You have to be vulnerable and talk about everything, not just the fun, easy stuff to talk about. Like when you have an issue that you need to resolve, that you're able to have that kind of trust in the other person that you can be vulnerable, have the conversation, say what's on your mind and, you know, find ways in which you can talk about it that aren't accusatory or.

Ways in which the other party shuts down, right?

Welcome to Married to the Startup. I'm Alicia MacKenzie, a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator. Alongside me is my amazing husband, George, the CEO who's always ready for a new challenge. We've been navigating marriage and running startups for over a decade, and we're here to share the real, unfiltered journey with you. Join us for insights and candid conversations about integrating love, family, and entrepreneurship. This is Married to the Startup, where every day is a new adventure.

And welcome back to episode number 45 of Married to the Startup. I am your host, McKenzie.

And I am also here. And my name is George McKenzie. It is, don't wear it out.

Alicia McKenzie (01:13.416)

That is your name. All right. So we had some technical difficulties last week. We were in San Francisco and while we were trying to record the podcast, the audio and the video and it was just all bad. Everything was bad.

And I feel like they were cleaning the room or trying to at the same time and then, you know, people outside were, you know, not cooperating.

Which, okay, let's chat about San Francisco really quickly. do it. Because I had to go there for a book conference for my newest child children's book that is coming out on September 30th. So I did like an author signing and I did a dinner with my publisher and some other authors. It was great. But everybody has been saying how San Francisco is making a turnaround and

It's so much better than it was a year ago. And let's start with the fact that we walked into our hotel and we picked this hotel because it was free, right? I used some points. And we walked into the hotel and it was dead, like apocalyptic pandemic in the middle of lockdown empty. And it was the eeriest thing I have ever seen since 2020.

Yeah. And it's not a small hotel. It's a JW Marriott right downtown San Francisco. And it was you and I and the guy checking us in at the bell desk. There was no one in eyesight in the main lobby, the bar, the restaurant. And it was like, what? Probably 12.

Alicia McKenzie (02:47.49)

No, think it was maybe like one or two o'clock.

Okay. Yeah. And like not a soul the whole time we checked in, then we get in the elevator, go up to our floor and passed nary a person on the walk to our room. And it was just very eerie, very eerie.

It felt like you were in the middle of a horror movie and you were waiting for somebody to come kill you. Like that's what it felt like. It was so strange, which I just think lends to the fact that San Francisco is not the place to be.

Yeah, I don't think it's the turnaround story people may be making it out to be. Like I haven't been there in years, probably. Two years? Three? Yeah, and I went out and it was terrible then. And, you know, we went back, you know, this week or last week and the stores are probably still 60 to 80 % empty windows. The mall, which is like the size of a block.

Yours, right? Something I say.

Alicia McKenzie (03:47.67)

Yeah, if you've been to Tyson's Corner, like this is the mall and it's huge.

and there was like one store on each level that was open.

It was like a Hugo Boss and then maybe two other stores that we walked by, but it was just...

They just closed the escalator to other levels because there's nothing.

which you would think they would condense all those stores to the same level. It would make more sense, but...

George McKenzie (04:09.3)

Yeah, it would make life a little easier.

I think, you know, it's just funny, like the turnaround story that I've heard other podcasters and other people talk about, I think it was best summarized by the masseuse you had. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting a massage and she's like, well, a year ago, you would have to jump over feces in the street and they've gotten really good about that. I'm like, man, if that's the barrier that you're like, that's what we're working with. We're jumping up feces. Yeah, you have to jump up.

Over. Or is there feces on the street? Check. No. Alright, making improvements. I guess you gotta start somewhere.

Yeah. Leap over a literal pile of shit.

George McKenzie (04:51.854)

But, Yeah, it was eerie and we walked around a bit and then it was crazy. The only thing I will take from it that I thought was super cool was our Waymo ride.

Yeah, the Waymo was really cool. So if we could adopt that on the East Coast, that would make me very happy.

Yeah, I think it could drive in DC. mean, streets of San Francisco are just as narrow, if not worse than DC drive. Yeah, so I think it could pick it up and then, It was relatively inexpensive. The ride was comfortable. It was a nice Jaguar. was the only issue was the sound. my that whistling sound. It was annoying.

I think they're worse.

Alicia McKenzie (05:28.814)

If you've ever been in a Waymo, like they have to broadcast noise so people know it's coming because it's a silent vehicle. But it's like this high pitched whistle.

You'd think they could just be like birds chirping or something.

Something, something. Because that was, I would say that would keep me from taking it regularly. It's just really fucking annoying. And I even went to like the Reddit threads. Apparently Reddit is where I get all my information now. It is, I love Reddit. Like it's just, there's a wealth of knowledge there.

your new source, Dajor.

George McKenzie (06:02.03)

I think your advice to me yesterday was to post a question on Reddit like I've ever done that.

I know. We need to create your Reddit account. I'm good. Right, but it's so good for like outside opinions and I feel like the influence there is just you get a lot of different opinions from both sides, right? Like left and right.

thanks.

George McKenzie (06:19.2)

I know. guess my biased opinion is most people who talk on the internet or post on the internet are skew. Except for Reddit. Okay. Okay. Those are the exceptions.

Dude. Except for Reddit.

Alicia McKenzie (06:29.74)

It's just one big commercial for Reddit. Anyways, but I did go to Reddit and I was like, the Waymo noise normal? And everybody was like, nope, that's the noise it makes. It's just really fucking annoying. But other than that, it was great. Even though, so once we got to our hotel, we left right away because there was no food. You couldn't get room service. You couldn't go downstairs to eat. There was no snack bar. There was nothing.

And the food service was, I think, 6 a.m. to 11, and then 5 or 4.30 to midnight or 11.

You don't get lunch, so you have to leave. So we left and we took the way mode of the Four Seasons and then we got massages. ate there, but... That was the Four Seasons was like alive and well.

and that was bustling.

George McKenzie (07:15.992)

But it was only inside the Four Seasons. All around it, the walk, the streets, nothing. And there was a conference going on, which I thought was, I mean, there's always a conference in the Moscone Center in San Francisco.

And that's what's keeping San Francisco alive.

Yeah. So they charge what I think that when we went to Napa, they were saying this is new, I guess, hotel model that they're doing where they're basically charging close to double the price of going rates, seasonal rates, and they just keep it at seasonal high rates and try to book half the rooms and then they lay off half the staff. So from a profit perspective, you're better off because you are close to the same revenue selling less rooms and you have less cost.

I I'm not paying $6,000 a night for a Ritz-Carlton.

Yeah, I don't know if some people do, I guess.

George McKenzie (08:09.268)

Ever. That's like the new game. Have I ever. Now we're doing never will I ever. Okay. Spun it there.

Got it. Yeah, but I will never pay that much room or that much money for a room outside of the Bora Bora. And I don't even think it was that much there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. St. Regis. It's a great hotel. But yeah, that was our little jaunt over in the city. Yeah, you're not missing much, you guys. All right, moving on. Okay. So there is actually this article that we came across while we were in San Francisco.

succinct regions.

George McKenzie (08:31.022)

SFO.

Alicia McKenzie (08:43.309)

We talked about it on the ride to Napa, but the title of it was Harvard-trained psychologists, couples who truly trust each other can talk about 10 things regularly.

Yeah, I thought it was cool. It reminded me of the days when you used to get the magazines as teenagers and the 10 reasons he's your soulmate or the 10 reasons blah blah blah. I always liked lists.

So going over the 10 things at a high level, it's things you can talk about regularly. Money, obviously, right? That's like the number one reason people get divorced. Money. Number two, sex. Please. Number three, parenting. I guess that's not applicable if you don't have kids.

Yes. Indeed. Well, that's why it comes after sex.

Painful past experiences, number four. Number five, it's time. Number six, insecurities and shame. Number seven, mistakes. Number eight, family. Number nine, power struggles. And last but not least, dreams and aspirations. So if you can talk about these 10 things on a regular basis and openly, then you have a truly trusting relationship. Yeah.

George McKenzie (09:45.486)

I thought it was, I liked the list and I liked It doesn't seem novel. It's not novel. I don't think there's anything really novel anymore. I think the interpretation and how you relate it to your own life and your own relationship, I thought was good. The overarching thing for me, rather than the headline bullets on the list, were really that to maintain a trusting relationship, that it's an active process, not passive. It's not like you reach trust and then you have it. No, it's continual.

Like you continually have to talk about things. You have to be vulnerable and talk about everything, not just the fun, easy stuff to talk about. you know, like if you're just talking about, you know, how awesome vacations or your career aspirations or what I want to be or, know, what I want the future to hold, like those types of things that are easy to talk about. when, you know, your sexual relationship is really good, talk about how amazing it is and how great last night was or whatever. Like those are easy conversations, but having the deeper.

Mm-hmm.

more vulnerable conversations when things aren't great, or how do you voice your opinion when you have an issue that you need to resolve? One of those four areas, be it money, whatever, that you're able to have that kind of trust in the other person that you can be vulnerable, have the conversation, say what's on your mind, and find ways in which you can talk about it that aren't accusatory or ways in which the other party shuts down, right? I think the same, it's a relationship. Some of these carry over to work too. You have to be able to be, have...

Honest conversations, I think those are the best relationships, you know, regardless.

Alicia McKenzie (11:13.218)

So the one thing that did stick out to me though was time. don't know, maybe because it just, feels like you and I have always been on the same page when it comes to time, right? Like we both know it's a finite resource. We both know that it is very limited and we choose to spend time with the people we want to spend time with. And we're very intentional about where we direct energy, time and resources. Are you?

Why?

George McKenzie (11:38.2)

I'm even more so. I'm just joking. Yes. Even more so recently is what I was getting at. But no, yeah, for real. I think it takes a long time to mature. And I guess I'm still doing it day by day. We all are, but yeah.

Well, you know what's, I think what plays in our favor is that I was really young when we got together. And you were middle-aged.

That was not middle, 30 is not middle aged.

I was really young. You were mentally young.

I'm so mentally young.

Alicia McKenzie (12:11.122)

And we, I mean, we've basically built everything we have from scratch. Yeah. Like from the bottom.

Yeah. Yeah, I think we figured out how to build a trusting relationship. Maybe that didn't start that way.

Yeah, right? Like we did all of our fucked up shit to each other prior to getting married.

Yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, we go through ebbs and flows, but we've definitely found ways in which to talk to each other about things. you know, I think even it's just exciting that, we're what? Almost 20 years into this relationship and there's still new things we learn about each other. New ways to open up, right? That sometimes there's painful things like it talks about trauma and there's things in your past that

Don't age me.

George McKenzie (12:57.646)

Even though you trust the other person, it doesn't come out. It's not like a dinner time conversation that just finds its way to the forefront. But when it does find its way, that you talk about it and you're open with it. think it's, you those things happen over the length of a relationship. not like you immediately establish trust and then you spill everything and you have that trust forever now because of that. It's a day in, day out. Check in.

And I think like the one thing that like pops out right to the forefront of my mind is money, right? Like when you and I got together, I was always taught because of past trauma and past struggles that you do not commingle funds with your spouse. Anti.

Yes, and I was adamant that I'm the opposite. Adamant. Is that not what I said? I was very adamant about how I said adamant.

Adamant. Adamant. No, I'm just repeating. No, I was just repeating. That stems from past financial trauma. My father financially ruined us. My mom had to file for bankruptcy. We were left with fucking nothing when he disappeared. So that's like...

past trauma that I've had to deal with, that she's had to deal with, and that she instilled that thought and fear into me that if you co-mingle with your spouse, that is a big risk.

George McKenzie (14:18.104)

or I came at it from the opposite, think. Having it not commingled is a gigantic risk because then, in my view, you're both truly not in it together. You're not like, this is us against the world. It's you and me, we're gonna figure it out no matter what happens. And when it comes to bills, when it comes to future aspirations, saving for retirement, everything, if we're not both understanding what's happening and where the money's going, then we're gonna be on divergent paths.

Right. And then it's like, hey, can you transfer money into the joint account so we can pay rent this month? mean, it just, that sounds, it's just at that part, I just could not get over.

That is not the life you want to lead. It is not. And it may work for some people.

As I get older, there's. It may. Yeah. I'm, I'm a special use case. get it.

I just think you're uber traditional.

George McKenzie (15:07.616)

In some ways, yeah, probably. Maybe. What does that mean? Let's unpack that. What am I so over traditional about?

Uber, traditional.

Alicia McKenzie (15:15.426)

Hahaha.

Alicia McKenzie (15:19.602)

If I wanted to be barefoot and pregnant for 20 years, you absolutely would have let me. Right? Like, we could have totally, like, Catholic-catholicized our relationship and just went bam, bam, bam and had as many kids as we possibly could have if I wanted to.

Yeah, I would have.

George McKenzie (15:33.966)

I think the takeaway here, dear, is that, you you could say just about everything that ended with if I wanted to, and it would probably as the way it would have worked.

as I'm currently shopping for puppy food for our newest baby. I started to get that baby fever, so I went and got a puppy. He comes home next week. name is Fitzgerald Grant. You named him. You were a part of the process. You cannot say I'm

I didn't like the other name.

Carl is a cutie.

is not to go with Huck and Olive. Never. So I had to bring it back into alignment. Back to the list. So the one thing that it's not that you and I have ever had that conversation. I know some people have issues when they spend too much time together. Like that, I just needed a break from my spouse. I've never, I don't think I've ever really thought that. But I can get to how some people may. Yeah. But do you think that you could communicate too much? Like be too oversharing?

Alicia McKenzie (16:10.146)

Anyway.

Alicia McKenzie (16:33.038)

I draw the line at an open water closet.

that I agree concur you see that movie sometimes you see that like is that real do people really do that

No, is that a real thing? Like, do you just go to the bathroom with your spouse right there? That's not us. That's a hard line in the sand. And I also draw the line at toothbrushes. I know my aunt is listening to this and she's like...

I imagine that.

Why not?

George McKenzie (17:00.522)

You're weird when it comes to any of that stuff.

No, that's because it's gross. I don't want to share your cup or your straw or your toothbrush. like it makes me viscerally.

I know, I don't understand. I don't get it.

Ew. Okay. I have great oral hygiene. Like, amazing. Like, my teeth, I love them so much. When I get stressed, I have dreams of my teeth falling out of my mouth. Like, that's how attached I am to my chompers.

I don't think I've ever had a dream about my teeth falling out.

Alicia McKenzie (17:34.294)

It's that and plane crashes. those are my, I had a plane crash dream last night actually. Did you? Yeah. So that means I must be stressed about something. I'm not sure what it is. All right. Back to our, back to our little list.

So the other, mean, I think, you know, having that open communication and going through all 10 of those things, it's back to my, you know, it's not just a checklist. Hey, do we talk about these things? Yes, check, check, check, check. know, doing it consistently and having those. And I know I've talked to therapist before and having these check-ins and I don't think we do it. I know I try to do it, but it's not like we do it meticulously like, let's go to dinner and it's going to be a check-in. Let's have a financial check-in. Let's have a relationship check-in because, you know, it just seems like work.

It takes the romanticism out of it. Just bringing it up in everyday conversation. But at the same point, I know that it's difficult when you get stressed, especially founders or people that are new, creating a new business, new career, new job, new child. It becomes incredibly stressful. And how do you continue to work on those communication skills?

Okay, so that actually leads to a new business idea that I had and it's in development because I don't have time, but it's something I'm actually really passionate about. And it's an app for, should I talk about this or do you think it'd be easy to? No, so it's an app. So I've had five kids, right? And the hardest time when having children is that transition from going either having no kids to a new baby or one to two or two to three, so on and so forth, right? It's that like first...

Go for it.

Alicia McKenzie (19:02.222)

six to eight week period where you're trying to figure out like the new schedule and how the baby sleeps and so on and so forth. And there's a lot of frustration on the mother's part because A, you're exhausted, B, you're hormonal, C, you're like dripping from every orifice. Like it's just terrible. You got milk leaking out your boobs. Like it's just, it's such a hard time in a postpartum journey. And communicating is like the last thing you want to do. But

In the middle of the night, when you're nursing or when you're bottle feeding or when you're up with the baby, you have your phone, right? So if there were an app that allowed you to communicate how you're feeling honestly, and then there is a partner access to that same portal where like, what is one... Okay, let's say it is a daily check-in, right? So you're like, I'm exhausted. I could use help with this.

And then on the back end, your spouse can go in and see how you're actually feeling, right? Like you would have to give him access to your portal as a spouse, but it just, gives another lens to how you were truly feeling versus the cloak and dagger, like, oh, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, right? Like I feel like that's the knee-jerk reaction. Or what do you need me to do? And you're like, I don't fucking know, figure it out. If you could have some sort of portal that just allowed you to communicate honestly.

I think there's a need.

Yeah, well maybe it's broader than that too, because I'm sure husbands, I mean not just postpartum, but just overall, I know we have some of those like love language counselors, well you have this love meter or whatever and like, I'm running on empty and then that way to communicate. And people, especially people that have a hard time verbalizing it to have a way in which you could post your daily whatever, how you're feeling or what your needs are and things you need help with when you're not.

George McKenzie (20:59.788)

great at communicating it and then your partner could view it. So I there's some apps out there, they're, you know, I haven't done exhaustive research.

that I have for the postpartum period, which is why I really honed in on it. It just seems like a need. And I know when I was newly postpartum, like there was shit you could have done better, but I was too exhausted and I just didn't care. Like it wasn't worth the extra energy it took for me to communicate that.

Okay, well, I guess we will stay tuned.

to be created. TBC. All right, moving on. This is kind of a you thing. Yeah.

GBC.

George McKenzie (21:40.844)

Yeah. I just thought it was a thought-provoking article.

Well, I mean, we've talked about the gig economy before. Yeah. Right. it's, think the gig economy is, what do you think? Do you think it's decreasing? Are people getting sick of...

No, I mean, I think that what the article postures is really like in China, there's almost 200 million gig workers, is becoming the, you know, honing in on becoming the largest working faction of the Chinese population. Ghana, the factory workers and farmers, and it's moving more to gig workers where they're using, you know, gig based apps to, you know, find jobs. So it's really like, how is it good for the world? Is it good for?

you as a person. you know, China is basically doing the beta testing for the rest of us because of the size and scale that they have that are in participating in this workforce. And you look at like factory workers now, they're saying that, you know, some of these factories, especially when the job requires low skill, low barrier to entry, that they're just using gig workers to do it. And they can say, all right, I'm going to hire this gig worker for a day, for a week, for a month when the guy's sick, whatever, and not provide any benefits.

have no real legal ramifications about how many hours I can make them work. And then there's no upskilling, no training opportunities. It's just let me utilize this resource until I don't need it. And out of sight, out of mind, that resource has to go figure out the next thing. And you juxtapose that with the United States and the gig worker economy here, and that workers really want that autonomy. They want to be able to control their own time. And all of the laws that are really set up today are for institutional workers, people that are

George McKenzie (23:21.358)

hired by a company to work. The gig worker really doesn't kind of factor into that. And then now you have AI displacing jobs, younger people coming out of college or in high school having a harder time finding those jobs. So they're gravitating more to the gig economy because it's easier to get work.

you know, control your time and have those things, but there's no opportunity for skill development. There's no opportunity to retire or save for retirement. And think about the door dash drivers or these other drivers, you're getting controlled by an AI app, which is trying to give you more and more and more. And you work longer hours, right? And you're getting less pay because none of the laws or anything around employment is set up to protect you. So it's, you know, as we need less.

institutional workers in the future, maybe with AI and everything else, does the gig economy flourish, but is it worse for people?

Yeah, it is. Right off the bat, I'm thinking, okay, I am a door dash driver, or I'm sorry, biker in the city of New York and I get hit by a car. What happens to your employment? What happens to your income? There's no insurance. Yeah. So what do you do? Who's going to be in charge of ensuring that these people, that there's some sort of

and some workers comp.

Alicia McKenzie (24:45.634)

governance or protectance for

Yeah, so I think maybe laws have to change or we as we are business owners and founders and startups to look at it differently because we've used gig workers, right? You use it all the time. Like, hey, I need this finite skill or I need this thing to accomplish a task, but that's it. I don't need it any longer. You get more and more of that. you know, let's say AI is helping to make the program management decisions of what you need, who, when, and where. And you're just choosing, you know, the lowest cost labor resource for the finite amount of time it takes to complete a

It's hard because as a business owner, like I can see both sides of the coin. Well, I want to save money. I would love to not have to pay for insurance or all that other ancillary bullshit, but also humanity.

Yeah, exactly.

George McKenzie (25:31.17)

Yeah, and then it's, you know, how do you treat your gig workers, right? Do you treat them as an employee and give them the same kind of benefits around training opportunities or do you not? Because, you know, selfishly, in a business owner, I'm going to invest in assets, people that are going to contribute to my long-term success. And by definition, that's not a gig worker, right? They're going to be there for a short amount of time to accomplish a certain task and then they're gone. So why would I invest anything in them?

Yeah, you don't. Right. Because it just doesn't make financial sense.

So then it's up to the gig worker to kind of be organized, to manage their own time, to provide their own training, to save for emergencies and if you get injured or something happens.

at the current American landscape, people don't save. Nobody's saving. People can barely pay their bills. Right? So if you leave a stable job and you decide to become a gig worker, are you going to put away 30 % in case you have an accident or are going to pay for your own insurance? Like, how's that going to go?

Yeah, I don't know. just, so that's why I was thinking that it's an interesting because it's so many people that are gravitating toward it. And we've known lots of gig workers over time that, you know, maybe you have a special skill in which you could leverage and you get project-based work on that skill. But what if that skill starts to go away or isn't as sharp as it used to be? Or, you know, we could say you're an AWS engineer and

George McKenzie (26:58.638)

you're in high demand and you can charge a lot and do a lot of project based work and come in and be the heavy hitter. And then what if AWS changes its infrastructure and comes out with a new way of doing it that's mostly AI based and you know, the interface is less, you know, launching VMs and running things and it's more, Hey, I talked to the AI chat bot and it does it all for me. And then how do you re-skill yourself? And if so, you know, what do you know, what should I be re-skilling in? Like those things in a...

legacy world, your employer would hopefully provide you annual or provide you training to move you into another role. And maybe it's a management role, maybe it's project management and you're running the projects now, or it's, you know, I'm a VP of engineering and I'm overseeing these, like all those career advancement opportunities that are available to you inside of a traditional business structure really don't exist in the gig world. So how do you plan for that? How do you save for retirement? How do you plan for a career?

I'm trying to think of all the gig workers I've used over the last course of the year. I mean, every website I've ever built was based on a gig worker, right? Like I had a girl, she came in, I gave her the requirements, and I think like 30 hours later it was done.

Yeah, and I think AI is going to like creating a website AI will have solved that problem. It's getting better at that problem is it's clunky now, but you like Wix just bought that company or, you know, 50 million or 100 million. 80 million. And, you know, it's all just AI and it's going to get really good at coding those things that the advancements it makes month over month are, you know, exponential.

It's not as easy as you make it.

Alicia McKenzie (28:40.526)

Absolutely, I mean I used Entropic to...

Yeah, so I say it's gonna that that part is easy. It's gonna figure that we're gonna be able to figure that part out

Eventually, but it wasn't there when I needed it.

I know, I know, but that's what I'm saying. So what does that gig worker do a year from now or 18 months from now when you don't need to know WordPress, you don't need to understand that. You just pick a thematic and then you talk it through with the AI agent, just like you would, you know, the gig worker and it creates it.

I think the gig worker will still play a role in translating what the business owner wants to the AI model to then subsequently create the final product. I think the gig worker is still going to have a role in playing the middleman because a lot of business owners aren't that knowledgeable when it comes to these up and coming technologies. Let's say you have a 55-year-old

Alicia McKenzie (29:32.234)

female grandmother entrepreneur who's trying to build a new website. She's not going to know how to utilize artificial intelligence and these models to create some website.

Yeah, I guess I look for further in the future where, you're just going to, Wix is going to have an agent that you call and you just have a conversation with the person, AKA the AI agent and just like a gig worker would, and it's going to question and answer and have a chat with you and then build it out.

Okay, I could see that. Yeah, then I don't know.

Yeah, think that's kind of the thought process of the article for me anyway, was like, what do do with all these people that are gig workers today that aren't saving? Our legacy legal system isn't built for this type of worker.

There's going to be a boom in the industrial industry.

George McKenzie (30:22.094)

Maybe. I'm just saying that that's kind of where all of our, you know, employment law and everything is really honed in on is that, you know, nine to five factory worker, go to the office worker, corporate worker. It's not really framed out for gig workers. And I know a lot of people are doing, especially younger people, because it's an easy way to find your first job or to start making money.

We just hired our first little gig worker for one of my other companies.

Yeah, I mean, it's quite interesting. Makes you think both today's problems and then what are tomorrow's problems.

It is, I think.

Alicia McKenzie (30:56.014)

It's going to be like travel. It's going to be experience. It's going to be more in-person community.

Is that still a gig worker economy or is it you got to go back to being a part of a company?

No, I think that's still a gig worker economy, right? Like we don't hire a company to host our parties. We host our parties ourselves and we hire gig workers.

Right, but if you were larger, would you just have that insourced?

George McKenzie (31:26.734)

I still think it's you build a skillset for a career and the skillsets are less.

George McKenzie (31:35.758)

I think trades are great.

George McKenzie (31:50.864)

I mean, it's possible.

Yeah, still probably going to be thought leaders.

George McKenzie (32:02.38)

I mean, you still have managers, thought leaders, people that are running the programs, the projects. And then understanding core concepts and businesses is better than learning a specific skill set. Like, I'm learning to be a coder. That's probably going to be obsolete.

But understanding basic math and how coding works.

George McKenzie (32:32.632)

funeral home.

George McKenzie (32:36.278)

I know, I'm just saying. I guess maybe you'd have an embalmer that is a robot.

George McKenzie (32:48.974)

But I think tech is transforming. It's going to be slightly different. Yeah, my health and wellness is probably still going to have to be there. And maybe that'll be the thing is as we evolve as a civilization and as an economy where, you know, hopefully our basic needs are met easier and there's less poverty because AI can level the playing field, hopefully, then people may be able to turn their focus more on to

health and wellness and longevity and entertainment where you're not focused on paying the rent and more focused on, know, how do I make this husk survive a hundred years?

George McKenzie (33:55.2)

Did you have the National Guard deployed?

George McKenzie (34:36.11)

I can remember the like after 9-11 the year after I remember they were like surface-to-air missiles at the Pentagon visible and you're like, yeah, well just driving to work. It just becomes a thing.

George McKenzie (35:05.358)

especially coming from someone from San Francisco. I think that is the larger, like, my God, how do you live there?

George McKenzie (35:24.454)

Yeah, there was like a large four-person, four-room tent, like on the sidewalk at an intersection. Yeah. Not in a grassy hole in a park, like on the sidewalk at an intersection. Like large enough to take over the whole sidewalk.

George McKenzie (35:49.262)

Yeah, and then the screaming in the streets and it was wild.

George McKenzie (36:10.062)

Just the backyard.

George McKenzie (36:17.612)

No, I think I'm good. I'm done. You're gorgeous.

Beautiful, baby