Alicia McKenzie (00:00.928)

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When you started your career, you were doing executive admin type work. And you were taking minutes and doing those things. That job doesn't exist anymore. AI can do that 100%. And call center work, AI is getting better. It'll do that 90 % to one. And you start to think about all the other financial analysts, research analysts, all these things that people were doing, especially entry level college jobs, those AI is getting pretty good at.

terrible.

Alicia McKenzie (00:48.974)

Welcome to Married to the Startup. I'm Alicia MacKenzie, a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator. Alongside me is my amazing husband, George, the CEO who's always ready for a new challenge. We've been navigating marriage and running startups for over a decade, and we're here to share the real, unfiltered journey with you. Join us for insights and candid conversations about integrating love, family, and entrepreneurship. This is Married to the Startup, where every day is a new adventure.

Welcome to episode 55 of Married to the Startup. I'm your host, Alicia McKenzie.

I am the co-host, Fitzgerald Grant III McKinley. No.

Fitzgerald. Hi baby. He's so sweet. Give me my baby. I him. It's the week before Christmas.

It is Christmas shopping abundance.

Alicia McKenzie (01:46.7)

This is why we travel for Christmas. So I don't have to do this. It's. This is more than I signed up for.

I'm almost done with the boys.

George McKenzie (01:55.906)

Yeah, right. this every year, and every year you complain the same. No! I don't understand. We do! We go on trips every year, and yet we still have the same Christmas experience. It's still the same number of presents.

We don't do this.

Alicia McKenzie (02:05.834)

It's not. is. I feel like this year is more. It's not. And I thought I was like ahead of the game.

Well that may be your common mistake, thinking you were ahead, which you took your foot off the gas and now you're behind.

I did, I'm behind. I'm behind and everything feels very frenetic and I don't like it. I don't like it.

Hmm. I feel under control. Calm as a cucumber.

That's because you're not doing anything. I'm shopping for... The day of, like, Christmas Eve, you're gonna be out at frickin' Walmart.

George McKenzie (02:32.888)

Well once I I didn't last year I had a spreadsheet which kept it easy now I have a feeling I've I've got more presents for one than the other which is a problem. Yeah, but I won't know that until I Ava She's got her Gabby doll house

You know who has nothing? Baby Maya. She's got a Hey Gabby dollhouse and that is it.

Maybe you, she's yours, your ward. When it comes to Christmas, that's your ward. I've got the boys. You've got the girls.

Anyways, today we're gonna do a little bit of a hot take on today's episode. In the sense that there's a lot going on, like trending right now, it's trending everywhere. Social media, other podcasts, in the news, which are regular news stations, like still relevant.

That takes.

George McKenzie (03:13.068)

trending on social media.

George McKenzie (03:24.576)

I think so. Maddox watches Tom Llamas every night. that and you don't get local news on social media. No. I don't think so unless you follow people. I do.

You can't base.

Alicia McKenzie (03:36.664)

Yeah, I do. I follow like all of the Washington DC news cycles. And I follow like...

Right, but do think everybody does that? If you follow the Washington news cycle, then it's basically you get the same thing that's on the news. Yeah. You're just getting in a different format.

No, like there's a bunch of different like Washingtonian Instagram accounts that I follow and I also follow them on Twitter or X, I'm sorry. And I follow like Dulles Airport on X, which is why I knew when that plane was leaving for Japan that it like sparked a brush fire. I knew that right away between Reddit aviation threads and the Dulles...

Maybe you stay off of Reddit. I love aviation. I'm sure you do. Lots of unqualified people being able to say whatever they want.

I love Reddit. It makes me so happy.

Alicia McKenzie (04:19.086)

What makes you assume they're all unqualified? You just said...

I didn't say they all are, but a vast majority of them are. There's not that many qualified people that are on Reddit.

I don't believe that to be true. Jake's on Reddit.

I think that speaks for itself. He's not qualified in a lot of things. We love you, Jake. Yeah. He's talking about AI. He's probably credible, outside of that, probably not.

I love you.

Alicia McKenzie (04:43.022)

I mean, he's got valid strong opinion. I love Reddit. Don't hate on it. I actually get a lot of my peptide information from it.

Yeah, everyone does. Yeah.

George McKenzie (04:53.838)

Mmm. Wow. I do. That explains a lot.

Whatever, even Nikki was telling me that she like goes to Reddit for something.

I'm sure some people got it right. It's a good sounding board to get lots of different opinions. It doesn't mean it's fact-

I didn't say it was factual. It's like Wikipedia. Nobody says Wikipedia is factual, but everybody still goes to it. Anyways, back to what we were going to talk to you today. You actually sent me an article, which I almost took offense to it.

until you read what the actual traits are and you're like shit this is a compliment wow good thing I didn't overreact much

Alicia McKenzie (05:26.264)

So the article is seven personality traits of people who walk fast. if you know me personally, you understand how much it pisses me off when people walk slow in front of me.

Yeah, that or try going on a walk with you. It's supposed to be this leisurely walk and we walk around the neighborhood and talk and you know, get to spend quality time with each other. And, you know, I've got a basically, you know, walk sprint to keep up.

For the record, I have a 34 inch inseam. You have an inch.

Okay.

A 30 inch end scene.

Alicia McKenzie (06:02.976)

I feel like that's being generous.

I drove ridiculous. Yeah. And I could leisurely.

So my legs are naturally longer than yours, which is why our sons are tall. You're welcome.

them.

I consider my walk to be a moderate pace and moderate means slow.

George McKenzie (06:24.194)

Yeah, well, you can consider it. Doesn't mean it's right. You know who?

is able to match my walk pace easily. Who? Your daughter, Makayla. She walks at my speed and I feel like these traits are...

Yeah.

George McKenzie (06:39.253)

Yeah, let's.

So they say that there are seven personality traits of people who walk really fast.

Isn't that interesting though, how like one action can be associated with personality traits. And I do believe it to be true. there's, you know, some people are fast talkers. Most times their mind's moving and they talk about like some people who are uberly confident. Most times that's correlated with ignorance. Yeah. Is the more confident you are normally correlates to the more ignorant you are because you're compensating.

Interesting. I find fast talkers to be lacking self-assurance. I've done business with a lot of people who talk really fast and it makes me question what they're saying because they are spitting it at me so fast.

Maybe.

George McKenzie (07:27.68)

It's less about the fast talking. It's more about people that can't stay on subject. Yeah, and they bounce. Uh-huh. Like we both were on a zoom call with someone like that recently. Yeah, and I have that I lose confidence as well. Like when you don't answer the question and then you bounce to the next thing and then the next thing and everything's crazy and you just keep bouncing. Right and yeah, you know it degrades my trust and that you're actually taking things seriously. Yeah

Alicia McKenzie (07:55.891)

Yes, yes. also think that's creative brain though too versus an analytical brain.

They're evading. It's just an evasive technique.

George McKenzie (08:03.704)

Yeah, it's very evasive to me.

Okay, well the seven traits. Yes. Goal oriented.

associated with fast walking. want to get to my place versus enjoying the journey.

I enjoy the journey though, but also I want to get there fast.

Yeah, I think those are contradictory.

Alicia McKenzie (08:23.854)

They're not. I'm extroverted. I'm questioning this one. I don't know if that's to be true. I feel like I am an extroverted introvert.

Very extra.

George McKenzie (08:33.162)

No, that's me. You are an extrovert extrovert.

Getting me out of my house after. Yeah.

Yeah, that doesn't that's not an introvert like an introvert is has a hard time in social settings and They're more introverted. They don't want to be out talking and intermingling like when you're in it You like being in large rooms and lots of people and you like the mingle. I do the mingle and I have to I don't like it

Okay, that's up for debate. open to experience. Yes. Always. Yeah. I will try anything once to include cocaine. That's just kidding. I will try anything once. I'm open to any and all experiences. I will say yes before I say no.

Yep.

Alicia McKenzie (09:18.304)

unlike my slow walking husband. Yes. Time conscious.

Yes, you are incredibly time oriented. Yeah.

To a fault? No, there's no fault in It is too. There isn't. I even plan my lateness. I know. Like I plan to be late.

I know and it's a very annoying habit. Like I plan to be early. I like to be five, ten minutes early to wherever I need to go. So I have time to relax and be centered and figure out what it is I'm doing.

So here's the scene. I drop the baby off at 8.50 at preschool. Tennis starts at nine. I know because I want to drop the baby off that I am going to be late. I'm okay with that. Right? Like, I'm planning to be late. And Griff fully expects me to be three to five minutes late because of drop off.

George McKenzie (10:06.84)

Okay.

Alicia McKenzie (10:14.124)

Right? So I feel like there are certain occasions where you can plan to be late and it's fine. And that's like going to an event. Like we have an event tonight and it's two hours long and it starts at six.

And we'll probably be there around 7. Yeah. Yeah. It's different. Fashionably late to a party. No!

Like I'm planning to not be there on time. It's time conscious. You do the same thing. assertive. Yeah. Very, very. I don't mean swords. Yeah. Almost to a fault. I feel like I'm on some sort of spectrum in that case. Like if you were to look at like the maybe Asperger spectrum, could.

Okay, certain things. Yes.

George McKenzie (10:51.719)

I don't know if it's the Asperger's spectrum. We should have like an asshole spectrum.

Did you just call me an asshole?

No, I didn't. just said, I think that's probably like Asperger's is for, you know, a certain type of disability. But I think, you know, we should have an asshole spectrum and then people should be graded on that.

Are you trying to tell me you're gonna grade me on the asshole spectrum?

Cause I don't think you have ass burgers. So you're on the low end of asshole, but I mean, there is an asshole spectrum. We're all on it somewhere.

Alicia McKenzie (11:21.934)

was meeting with a girl, with a woman, and she's a CEO of this company. And her and I have similar beliefs in that I have a hard time working with certain creatives and certain people who are just very touchy-feely because I am not. Like, I have feelings and they're very well guarded and I don't like them to get in the way of what I'm doing. And she's of the similar vein.

So it's that ability to cry on command.

That's such a difference between guys and girls. Like, I've only had a handful of experiences in my life where, in a work environment, I've had people cry. And I've only had one guy cry in my whole work experience.

Okay, why? Can you elaborate and maybe...

No, I can allow, mean, it was just a lot of, it was a very stressful time. And something he was responsible for was falling apart. And he didn't and couldn't figure it out. And it was more emotional driven issue. It was an issue with the business or what we were doing. And for girls, for women in my life that have

Alicia McKenzie (12:41.88)

Okay.

George McKenzie (12:45.654)

I've had work with, I've had several crying incidents, and most of which are around criticism. When you're trying to correct or to kind of outlay your expectation and how that expectation wasn't met, tears are normally like the following. That I cannot stand. Most of the time, I think...

Two of the three times I've had that experience, I just sent them home. Yes.

Alicia McKenzie (13:19.988)

Weaponized crying, I do not like. There are some occasions where shit happens and it just bubbles out of your eyeballs, but that is very few and far between. I feel like as an adult, you need to learn how to regulate your emotions. And also, if somebody cries and makes you uncomfortable, we need to figure out why the fuck you're uncomfortable with them crying. So I feel like there's two sides of the coin there.

can out handle it.

George McKenzie (13:44.332)

Yeah, and I'm all for like experiencing the feelings you have in the moment you have them. Yes. To be in touch with who you are. But it doesn't mean you need to like portray it outwardly. You can reflect after the meeting and sit with your feelings. Yes.

There's a

Alicia McKenzie (14:01.782)

So backing up, the seven traits being goal-oriented, being conscientious, extroverted, open to experience, time-conscious, assertive, and health-conscious. Yeah. I feel like I am extremely health-conscious.

Correct. I love how when you, sent that article to you, your immediate reaction was negative. Yeah, which was negative. Exactly. And that's how I read it too. Really? Right. Not like really? Really? This is interesting. Really? Great job. No, was really.

negative. I gave you a one word reaction. It was like, really?

Alicia McKenzie (14:29.783)

You could envision me saying... 100 %!

Alicia McKenzie (14:39.2)

No, because you make fun of my fast walking all the time.

I thought it was an interesting like, you know, a little, you know, put some air in your tires. It's pretty good.

So how do you think these traits show up in founders? You're not a fast walker, but you are a founder.

Right. Yeah. I think it's, have some of the, I wouldn't say all those traits are exclusive to fast walkers. Right. So I think you need a balance of everything. Do you? Yeah. As just like in a balance sort of a marriage, you need someone who's willing to take risks, right. And be able to say yes to everything first. And you need to be able to balance that with someone who's going to.

Now.

George McKenzie (15:18.958)

weigh the risks to understand the ramifications of the choice and then be able to go in and have a 360 view of the decision and then say yes.

You and I are opposite in a lot of things. Right. Right. Like you walk slow, I walk fast. You're risk adverse, I'm risky.

Your Ebony, I'm Ivory. Yes, Darren. I was going with the song. Yes, Darren. Because, it goes back and forth with all the... Does it? ...different things. Yeah.

actually can't pull that song right now. Because what generation are you?

Okay

George McKenzie (15:56.75)

I'm Gen X as we've covered in great detail. The greatest generation of all time.

My current husband is a Gen X.

Will you stop with that? current puppy's gonna get it.

Oh, I forgot he was over there. Hi, baby boy. OK, so do you think?

Works with parenting too. Like if we both said yes to everything, yeah, I our kids would have a hard time regulating what they want versus what they need.

Alicia McKenzie (16:27.694)

I feel like our girls are right though, you are easier on the boys than you are on them. I don't think When it comes to like dating and things that they can do. No, don't say...

The boys don't even date yet, they're not even close. Like why would I worry about it now?

Your eight-year-old went on a date. To the moon.

He went to the movies with me and my friend and his dog.

Would you let Michaela go?

George McKenzie (16:49.206)

with you and one of your friends, girlfriends and her son. if the four of you sat beside each other in the movie theater, yeah, go for it. Exactly. So it's, as in the friends episode, it's a moo point. It's a cow's opinion, it's moo.

Peace.

Alicia McKenzie (16:58.985)

I don't want to do exactly

Alicia McKenzie (17:12.076)

You lost me. I have it. OK.

You haven't seen. Anyhow, I'm not easier on the boys.

You are easier on the boys. You're 100 % easier on the boys.

And then I get the complaints about how I'm too hard on the boys when it comes to sports.

That's different. Anyways, okay, we're not getting into this. Moving on because one speed isn't enough. One speed isn't enough. One speed isn't enough. I robot.

George McKenzie (17:34.424)

Cause what?

Wind speed?

George McKenzie (17:44.699)

yes. Well, no, think his speed was their problem.

So what products do iRobot have?

they have a lot of products. think the commercially have we, yes, we used to have an I robot. We had the vacuum. It's I robot. was, mean, it was the I robot. We had a room. I remember we got rid of it because grace hated it. No, was petrified.

What did we have? What was it called? can't pull the name.

That little circle the room, okay

Alicia McKenzie (18:11.468)

Why did we really get rid of it? What happened that was horrifying? The iRobot went through shit. And then drug poop particles all over our floor. course he did. The dog was petrified of it. It spread fecal matter all over our house. And we got rid of it.

I don't remember what happened.

George McKenzie (18:19.849)

did it? I don't remember that. Grace was petrified of that thing.

George McKenzie (18:33.358)

But anyway, so they were first to market with that, you know, autonomous robotic vacuum cleaner. And then they followed that up with the autonomous robotic floor washer.

Yes. And what's wrong with the company?

And, you know, they originally started, there were a bunch of MIT engineers and they started to have government contracts and they were making like robots to diffuse bombs and those types of things. I think what one of their robots was, you know, used at 9-11 to help pull apart stuff. So that was kind of their big. Yeah, it was a big entry point into the market. And then they developed this commercial grade appliance, the Roomba and

Their claim to fame almost.

George McKenzie (19:13.838)

You know, I think, I don't know the entire history, but I think they also decided to start to sunset some of the government contracting and focus on the commercial sector because obviously the commercial sector is bigger. Yeah. Yeah. And I think they, at their peak, they were doing like, you know, 1.4 billion in sales or something ridiculous. And I think they, they fell victim to what a lot of companies fall victim to is you have a lot of success.

website, obviously.

George McKenzie (19:41.614)

and maybe you become a little too risk adverse. Yeah. And you stop innovating, you stop spending money in R &D, if you do those things, don't have new products, you don't have new things to go after the marketplace and the customers with. It's hard to maintain market dominance, which is a testament to Apple and how they've been able to do it with the smartphone. But you always have these other people that enter the market.

that compete with your technology and be able to do it at a lower cost. you know, they're, it's easy for them. They have a laser target. Like I am going to develop an autonomous robotic vacuum cleaner and I've got to look at the benchmarks from Roomba and I got to beat those and be cheaper. easy. Cause I want to capture their market. I want to go after their market. That's what I'm trying to get. So the easiest way to do that is to have feature parity.

maybe a feature or two they don't have and be cheaper. And that's what happened. There was lots of companies that came out, a lot of Chinese companies came out to be able to make a very similar robot that performed similarly at a cheaper price. So they were able to capture market share. And I think, you know, probably, I don't know for certain, right, but the CEO of iRobot probably thought that, I've got brand recognition. I've got...

great product placement. I'm in Bed Bath & Beyond at the time. I'm in Walmart. I'm in these big, know, brick and mortar institutions. And I have brand recognition that I'll continue to capture the marketplace. And then, you know, I'll create consumables with like the vacuum bags that you gotta buy or the brushes you gotta buy or this, that, and the other. And that's how I'll incrementally expand market share. Or expand, you know, how much of the wallet of a consumer I can get.

And I think the other companies said, Hey, you know, we've got this I robot. Let's do the ice scrubber. let's put them both together. Let's have one robot that does both washing and vacuuming. Let's do another robot that does, I don't know, pick your poison. And they kept expanding. And then now you have someone who was a market leader that kind of sat back in this cash cow phase and didn't innovate.

Alicia McKenzie (21:58.882)

I think that's also a risky run when you're first to market.

Yeah. Right. Market to look at you and emulate.

Yeah, that, but then you also put a lot of weight into consumer loyalty. Consumers don't care.

Yeah, brand loyalists. think people my generation and maybe older used to be, but I think the newer generations do not. Like brand loyalty is not as big a thing.

sure, if I have two lipsticks, I have 20. Right. All different brands.

George McKenzie (22:26.648)

Tell me about it. And I think that's the, it's the, generation and the latter generations. It's, it's whatever they got sold last. Yes. Yes. Right. It's not all that's why I'm still astonished at how Apple's been able to hold onto it. I think it's got to be something with the app store and the ecosystem that they built.

Or is it just the product itself, right? We've tried to... No, but they nailed it the first time.

They haven't innovated.

I'm some of these like flip the tablet phone like there's a lot of innovation that's coming out So we'll see at these newer generations that are especially the price of an iPhone is so expensive that maybe some of these people are gonna be less brand loyal because they have to Get out of it and you think about it like we're we're snobs, right and we're brand loyal. It's like you're not but you're green God forbid I texted you're green

So I think that's interesting that they've created this kind of click around the blue versus green. And we'll see if that holds persistence. But yeah, so the iRobot company, they thought they had a lifeline. Like their sales started declining and they were publicly traded and they were gonna go private in a sale Amazon was gonna buy on.

Alicia McKenzie (23:44.686)

but it fell through.

But it fell through with the European Union regulations and antitrust and a bunch of other things. They just couldn't get over the hump. And I think the company was betting it all on this acquisition. They took on 200 million in debt and they were doing all these things to try to get through the acquisition. And then when that fell through, you know, they were left with this mountain of debt and trying to find a way out. Yeah. And couldn't find an alternative buyer. And then it became, yeah.

What do we do? They laid off a bunch of people and then it became, hey, we're going to have to file chapter 11 and that restructuring.

Okay, so let's pause right there. Right, because when the general person hears that a company is filing for bankruptcy, they automatically think that, okay, the company's done, it's gonna close down, so on and so forth. But there is a big difference between filing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy as a private consumer and filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy as a company. So go into those two and what are the differences, like just high level.

Yeah, mean chapter 11 is something that a lot of companies have gone to look at our current president has done it a lot of times and use it as a bargaining chip as a way to renegotiate your debts. Yeah, so it's a way to go in chapter 11 kind of freezes your assets, but you get an opportunity. It's not like you're wiped clean like a chapter 7 as a person you go. It's it's almost a me a couple like hey, I can't pay my debts. Yeah, and then

George McKenzie (25:14.372)

most of your debts as a few that would not survive.

Right, like medical debt, loan debt.

persists past chapter seven, but you would file bankruptcy and then you're kind of forgiven of all your debt. And in payment for that, you kind of have seven years where you cannot get debt. So debt is almost impossible for you to get because of your default. And if you already get debt, it's at those predatory loan rates.

trustee.

Alicia McKenzie (25:40.686)

for sure, like 30 % interest rate on like a $5,000.

Exactly, yeah. then the chapter 11, it's really, hey, I wanna pay my debts. The current leverage position is not in my favor, I can't make it work. I don't wanna default on these debts. We wanna restructure these debts and realign. And then, yeah, if you're last on the debt stack, maybe you have some risk, but the people that are prominent on the debt stack are gonna get paid back or.

have the opportunity to renegotiate to continue to get paid. Yeah. Unless the recourse of your loan is, Hey, I've take physical assets that were back in this loan. So as part of that restructuring, you know, they're trying to renegotiate debt, but you know, this Chinese company is going to buy them. think one of their competitors. Yeah.

So, yeah, so the FTC blocked the acquisition. Do you know why? Okay. I wasn't sure if you read that, right? They blocked the Amazon merger.

no.

George McKenzie (26:36.014)

What the FTC did? Yeah.

The FTC blocked it. Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. But I think this just, it's the dangers of being a company first to market with only one real product, not innovating anymore, and then banking on the fact that this merger is going to happen and it doesn't.

Yeah. I think that there's a lot of variables there to unpack like banking on the merchant. I can tell you have gone through this several times and any founder that's gone through an acquisition that due diligence process from start like, Hey, we're going to talk about acquisition to closing can be, you know, I'll say on average for me, mine were four months. Well, maybe I mean, due diligence is normally like

Okay. That seems fast.

George McKenzie (27:27.0)

what, 60 days, 90 days maybe? And well, I think six months was the first one because we had CFIUS and we had some other stuff to deal with. And yeah, maybe it's long over the start of the conversation, but I'm saying from the day you get your term sheet to the day you close, three months or four months, right? And in that time, it's obviously due diligence and they're trying to make the best decision they can for purchasing, but at the same time, it's like a blank check for the acquirer.

They're getting to observe operations in granular detail and they're grading you out on your forecast for that quarter. Like, hey, when we start at this and I gave you this term sheet, this is what you said the next three months are going to be. And I get an open peek into how accurate you are. it's a stressful time for founders because one, you're answering the myriad of questions that they have for you. The interviews, the forecasting, the...

I'm to hoping you can do what you say you're going to do.

George McKenzie (28:24.344)

deep dive into every penny and the quality of earnings and all these things. they're combing through everything and you still have to run your business. And you can't tell your customers about it and you can't tell your employees about it. So you're kind of doing three jobs all at once and you got to hit your numbers. So I can see like during that, it's very hard to maintain clarity and to say, right, what if this doesn't work?

because you're so vested in it, right? So you may make decisions that are impactful in the short run that help you hit the number so that you look good, but long-term could have a problem. For sure. So I think the acquisition part was one. And then the innovation thing, it's hard when you have a successful product, right? know, what do I do next? Yeah. And, yeah.

do I continue to, and especially as a publicly traded company, right? I gotta maintain profitability. I gotta continue to show revenue growth. I gotta show profitability growth. And then, sure, some companies get rewarded for massive R &D investments because you could write it off or you get tax advantaged and you find ways in which it doesn't impact your EBITDA, but it's a hard one.

What's the future of the company?

It's gonna be devolved into a Chinese company. it'll be iRobot will be one of the product arms that this company sells. Alright. Or they'll take all the IP and just incorporate it in the other product that they already have.

Alicia McKenzie (29:56.878)

So that's all she wrote for iRobot.

Maybe. I sent the rope. The name will probably stay because it has some brand awareness. Of course. But being an American owned company by a couple of MIT engineers, those days are gone. Yeah.

Well, I guess time to get a shark.

Yes, or I think Sony has one now Samsung has like everyone has one Yeah, it was cutting-edge at the time yeah, I think it'll be interesting but it's a good lesson for founders and you know How do I avoid that trap? Mm-hmm? How do I continue to innovate? So when you're on top, but if that's not your choice and you want to run this thing forever then Yeah, how do you continue to innovate?

That's what I mean. There's nothing novel anymore.

Alicia McKenzie (30:30.412)

Sell when you're on the top.

Alicia McKenzie (30:36.332)

you can run it all the way to the scene of the crash.

Alicia McKenzie (30:41.582)

Alright, moving on. Elon's in the news again.

Yeah, this is an interesting one because I this is something I've talked about before. I tend to agree.

Do you? Yes. Okay. So, Elon is saying that money will disappear as AI makes work irrelevant.

Yep. And I think he says a lot of things to provoke response. Of course. I'm not sure. But, you know, I could, I've talked about this kind of dystopian world that could come of it, right?

So making traditional work obsolete, right? That's what he's saying is going to happen. But what do you consider traditional work? Like your admin assistance?

George McKenzie (31:20.152)

Yeah, you think about it now. you know, when you started your career, you know, you were doing executive admin type work. Yeah. Right. And you were taking minutes and doing those things. Right. Right. That job doesn't exist anymore. I can do that 100 percent. Yeah. Right. And call center work. A.I. is getting better. It'll do that 90 percent to one. Right. And you start to think about all the other, you know, financial analysts, research analysts, like all these things that people were doing.

Terrible.

George McKenzie (31:47.438)

especially entry level college jobs, those AI is getting pretty good at. Think about the leaps that AI is making and with agentic AI that haven't been able to do these autonomous things for you and.

Do you think the power of AI is being overstated?

power of AI has been.

Right. you think so? Chat GPT first entered the market in November of 20. So what? It's 22. 23. Right. November of 20.

two years ago.

George McKenzie (32:17.294)

Yeah, so three years. Twenty So it's two years. And look at the astronomical rise that it has.

Right, but back then they were predicting that AGI would be...

Yeah, I think it's all relative, right? Like you don't know when it's going to happen, but the leaps that are happening keep happening. I'll liken it to, to keep it on Elon. We, I bought a Tesla in what? My first Tesla was 2015. And it had self-driving. I know. And it had self-driving and the self-driving on a highway was okay. Right. But it was.

Can you believe I was 10 years?

Alicia McKenzie (32:56.416)

Mediocre at best.

so vastly better than it was news. It was none. else had it. Yeah. Right. And then it got incrementally better, but not great, a little bit better. And then he scrapped it and went with a whole new internal Tesla run FSD. And then that technology got put in all the other cars, the old one. So everyone had some level of full self-driving and then, you know, the Tesla got better and it kept getting better incrementally, better incrementally, better. Oh, I could run on.

side roads that were lined. And then it got pretty good at that. And it wasn't great, but it could do okay. And then it's, Hey, we can recognize stop signs and red lights and we'll stop for you and we'll dingy when it goes green. Right? Like that was cool. It got better. It's getting a little bit better, but every now and again, you get that, shit, mom, you got to grab the wheel. Cause it did something fucking crazy. And I think that it kept going and kept going and kept going. And then I would say this year it drives great. Like I will put navigation in like where I'm going.

I've drove through the side roads in Arlington, like in a neighborhood, no line, cars on both sides, really not wide enough for two cars to go at once. It drove through there, stopped at every stop sign, made left-hand turns in traffic, crossed the lane. Like did all that, drove all the way back to my house. Perfect. Never had to touch the wheel once. And that's the other part. I don't have to hold the wheel. I don't have to touch it now. That was the most

thing.

George McKenzie (34:25.502)

And if I think about it and look at those terms, like he touted full self-driving when he first sold Tesla 10 years ago. We're gonna automate, truck drivers will no longer be needed. These things will drive themselves, right? And I think just now, 10 years later, we're getting to a point where I can believe it. It drives well. We've been in Waymo's driverless cars. That technology is there now, it's coming. So I think AI's the same path. We got a little ahead of it with.

And someone's got to be the snake oil salesman. Someone's got to be out there prophesying it or the investment won't come. Right? So yeah, I think people said some outlandish things and are still saying outlandish things to continue to keep the eye on it and the investment on it and people seeing this as what it could be. I think eventually we'll get to what it could be.

Okay,

You look at Gemini now. Gemini, newest version, is so good. So much better.

The two other versions like Claude, I've been defaulting to Claude and Gemini over chat GPT just because they're so much better.

George McKenzie (35:26.072)

Yeah, they're way faster and Gemini uses Google search. can get real time information for you. So it's from a research perspective. It's fantastic. Yeah. And like a friend of mine is doing a lot of agentic coding and use anthropic. And then you're having, you know, AA agents bounce off the different, you know, LLMs and then using, you know, your own and you're doing some for costs, some for speed, some for accuracy, and you pick which one's right for what you need. Yeah. And

It's but it's getting there. It's getting better and better and better. And then the robotics are getting better and better and better. And if you continue to see, even if it's an incremental increase, not this leapfrog, kind of Moore's law progression, even if it just incrementally continues to get better, you'll see more and more jobs it can do. Yes. Right. So if it can do all these things and it continues to get better and do more jobs, take more away from.

then right and and yeah they'll still be need to be humans around right someone's got a

What are humans going to do?

Alicia McKenzie (36:31.534)

prompt these LLMs.

Right now, right? Someone's got to do it. And someone's got to continue to be the electrician to run power to the data centers, do the plumbing and the cooling. like, there's still things that have to be done, but I think a lot of these.

Well, we're going to pay more for those things that need to be done.

Yeah, I a lot of these thought-led jobs may not need to be there.

So it's going to go towards more of an industrialized system, but you're going to pay more for those industrial.

George McKenzie (37:02.028)

Jobs.

Like we were talking to our contractor who's saying that because of the shortage of framers, you used to be able to get a framer for $20 an hour. Now it's $27 to $30 an hour. And if you don't pay that, they're going to go somewhere else and frame somebody else's house. Because they can get the payment.

because they can get the work. Yeah. So if you think like that continues, but AI continue to take jobs and then it becomes, you know, have this mass amount of people that have their needs met and the cost of goods go down because you can have AI do these things faster, more efficient, your labor costs go down. And, you know, could there be a Wally future where you don't have to work and I do see that happening.

Right? If you look at Wally, everybody was fat and miserable. Right. Right? So when you get to a world where AI is doing everything for you, humans need a purpose. So what is that purpose? Right? It can't just be

I agreed.

George McKenzie (38:02.638)

Art, science, maybe it's art, I don't know.

Right? Like, there has, like, this isn't a question of, like, whether or not...

Yeah, we need, we need conflict. We need purpose. We need something to believe in. Why do I get up every day? You have to have something. Yeah. So it'll be interesting. And I'm sure there's other people say, Oh, AI it's just like cars, right. And it doomed the horse and buggy system. And yeah, it was going to, you know, modify the entire world. Same with the industrial revolution, but things change, new jobs were born, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think this is different. Like I do think there'll be some new jobs born.

to have that.

George McKenzie (38:39.896)

But I don't think the jobs it can replace, there will be enough jobs created for the ones that it can replace.

So I guess that means getting more into hobbies and creating those environments where humans can get together and have a shared purpose.

I agree. I think that's it's hard like to I think the last 50 years or so Humans have gotten I think in the US right less happy Yes, and why is that because everyone's more focused on money and work and individualism and things that don't actually make you happy

Some of the most, I guess I would say, some of the most successful people, successful in their own right, they all have hobbies, though. Right? Like, if you look at our friend group, they all have hobbies. Whether that's like, I'm gonna go visit every vineyard in Europe, or I'm gonna go create pickleball games every Sunday, or we're gonna do tennis at 2 p.m. every Thursday, right? Like, every successful person that we know has some sort of outlet that does not revolve around work.

And I think they're all genuinely happy because their needs are taken care of.

George McKenzie (39:53.998)

But do you think that group is representative of the vast amount of Americans?

No, but I think we could go towards that. Right.

If you had an AI algorithm and you had credits and it was doing work for you so you didn't need to work, then yeah, if you had hobbies or you had interests or you had things that drove you, passions, then yeah.

So should entrepreneurs be worried or excited about a future with AI?

I think both, right? Both can be true at the same time. It's how can I leverage AI, like in that scenario, how can I leverage it to make money for me, to help me create what I want to create? How can I leverage it to help me grow the business that I want to do, what I'm passionate about? I'm passionate about helping people, I'm passionate about getting people together, I'm passionate about building things, whatever. How can I leverage AI to help me do that?

Alicia McKenzie (40:29.462)

Hahaha

Alicia McKenzie (40:56.91)

because somebody actually sent me the screenshot of their ChatGPT prompt and the work that it spit out. And the prompt was so simplistic and the output was just useless. My concern is that people are using ChatGPT...

And it's useless, right? Yes, because the output that they got, like, it had to be completely reworked versus...

Like, is it?

George McKenzie (41:31.342)

Is it a function of the of chat GBT or the stupid prompt that they put into it? If I asked a Harvard educated, you know, you know someone with a you know Wharton business degree and I asked them an incredibly stupid business question with incorrect facts Their answer would probably be shitty, too

So you can't say, AI, it's useless. No, no, the answer was what you gave, your question, you gave it.

think my concern is that people are using it in that way.

Well, I think, yeah, I mean, if you look at how much social media do you think is AI genera-

Oh my god, I would say like 80 % of it now.

George McKenzie (42:14.356)

It's terrible. You Sora that can create amazing videos that you can just... And then you have AI agents which, okay, I'm gonna give it... I'm gonna have it scour the internet, look for trending words. Then I say, okay, take that trending word, create a story narrative to chat GBT. Chat GBT gives me some sort of stupid story narrative. Take that output, feed it into Sora, generate a video, give it back to me, post it on to...

Instagram, create some witty comment, which add GBT about the video, put it in there, give me hashtags that are relevant or top trending hashtags, put that in there, and then post. And that can 100 % be automated. Like you don't have to do anything. And just have that run on repeat four times a day.

Now.

Alicia McKenzie (42:59.822)

It's so frustrating because as somebody who creates content, the content that is being engaged with is idiotic. It's almost like you're in that movie with the bunch of morons running around. What is it? Idiocracy. It's idiocracy. my God. It's terrible. It's terrible. As a consumer who puts a lot of weight into...

It's a prophecy, that's not a movie.

Alicia McKenzie (43:27.988)

actually human created content to see all of the AI captions and all of the bullshit that is on social media. Like it is so frustrating.

Yeah. And you just think about, now 10x that and it's going to be like more and more of that on all these social media platforms. And then you say, okay, the Reddit threads, like I'll start using, you know, chat, GPT or these fake people are going to be responding in Reddit threads. And then you have. Yeah. Research all research being done by AI and then posted.

published by AIS, research papers will be created by AI, published by AI, and if I'm a private equity firm, I'm looking to do due diligence like we talked about earlier, when I get those forecasts and I get the contracts and I get all of that shit, I feed it into an LLM, I say, okay, you project out the next 12 months, you project out the EBITDA if I were to do X, Y, or Z. And then, okay, what if we, you

merge this company with that company? What kind of efficiencies could I get? Those things, it would probably be really good at answering those questions. But is that real? What do you get out of it? I don't know.

I think we just need to have like a public service announcement pop up on TVs or on TikTok or on Twitter and like this is the right way to use ChatGBT. This is the right way to use. I don't know.

George McKenzie (44:47.342)

But who does that benefit? I don't Me. No one. Right. So why would they do it?

because we're wasting valuable resources on stupid fucking

Yeah, maybe, maybe. think that was an interesting article too I sent you from Deloitte CTO about I guess their research 93 % of the spend in AI is on technology and only 7 % of the AI spend is on people. Which to his point, it's like you're spending all of your money on the ingredients and none on the chef or the recipe. So it's like you go to the market and you buy 93 % of your...

know, $93 out of your hundred you're spending on all of these incredible ingredients to make paella. And then only 7 % on someone that knows how to make paella. $7. And then you end up with just a plate full of rice. Right? Because no one knows how, they don't know how to put it all together and make it all work. And I think that's, and obviously he's coming at it from a consultant company, right? Which they, their whole company is around labor. So of course it's going to be skewed to his point of view, but it's, it's, you know, self-serving.

for him to publish that article, but I think the stat is pretty interesting. But I think it's back to that original point. Like why would they regulate it? You got the people that are got the White House's ear right now talking about AI regulation are the ones that don't want to regulate it. Or if they do want to regulate it, the regulations they want to put in there is to create a motor around themselves so nobody else can get in.

Alicia McKenzie (46:17.385)

It's a lot.

Right. Yeah. It's all alarming. I don't think most, most governmental regulations are not for the greater good. They're for somebody's good.

I mean, yeah. Pander for a reason. All right. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Happy Kwanzaa. Happy Christmas, Hanukkwanzaa.

Yeah.

Merry Christmas.

George McKenzie (46:38.624)

Isn't that how started? Yes. It is Hanukkah

George McKenzie (46:45.166)

Clones is not after Christmas. I think so. Yeah, I'm not, I was gonna say I'm some percentage certain, but now I'm not. I feel like I'd be totally wrong.

Is that true? I know nothing.

Alicia McKenzie (46:53.582)

Okay, so I think to wrap all of this up, assess your own walking speed. Like if you can go to New York and go with the flow, then you're probably a fast walker. If you can go to New York and like everybody's being annoyed with you, you're slow walker.

Yes.

George McKenzie (47:05.176)

Yeah.

George McKenzie (47:14.978)

Yeah, think, yeah, that's pretty interesting. Right? Yeah. And look at your own personality traits.

you

Yeah, I'm, you know, as I get older and then to 26 now looking at, all right. How do I lean into my, instead of trying to change things about me, how do you lean in and, you know, be better at the things you're good at?

I think next episode, we need to talk about our 2026 goals. That'll be interesting. I know. Like we've got it. They're ruminating. They're ruminating in our heads. We just need to, we take big sticky papers every year and we write down our goals, like travel, business, financial, so on and so forth. So I think we'll dive into that.

We should. have to create those. I'm excited for

George McKenzie (47:57.326)

Goals, financial goals, travel goals, and personal goals.

Okay, now if you are watching this on YouTube, do me a favor. Subscribe, please. Pretty please. We're trying to hit...

that subscribe button. that how say it? I just always loved that one. Just pound that subscribe button. I just wanted to say that once. Finally got to say it. Yes. And feedback on how do you make the audio and how do you make the video better? Is there things you would like to see? Maybe a better backdrop.

Do it because George said that.

Alicia McKenzie (48:30.574)

Triptease. hi baby! Are you awake? Amazing. Alright. We're out.

We have a separate channel for that. Bye!

baby boy.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Alicia McKenzie (48:49.996)

Thank you for tuning in to Mary to the startup. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please take a moment to like, rate and subscribe to our podcast. Your support helps us reach more people and keeps the conversation going. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, drop me a message. I love hearing from you guys until next time.

George out.